What rifles other than sako's do you hunt with?

[icebear]

That's quite a rifle! Reminds me of some of the artillery used by Sir Samuel Baker, the Victorian-era explorer best-known for his expeditions in central and eastern Africa in the 1860's. His biggest and most famous hunting rifle was a 2-bore that he named "Baby." Someone has actually built a reproduction of it; I read an article about the repro somewhere on the Web.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

That's quite a rifle! Reminds me of some of the artillery used by Sir Samuel Baker, the Victorian-era explorer best-known for his expeditions in central and eastern Africa in the 1860's. His biggest and most famous hunting rifle was a 2-bore that he named "Baby." Someone has actually built a reproduction of it; I read an article about the repro somewhere on the Web.

If I'm doing the math right & by 2 bore they mean 2 round balls per pound, that's a 3500 grain ball!!!!! Was it "wagon" mounted? I'm going to have to read about that monster. I love Sako rifles, but Black Powder front stuffers are my addiction!

 

[icebear]

Nothing wrong with your math, "Baby" was, indeed, described as a 2-bore. Baker fired it from the shoulder. It was very heavy, I forget the weight but it definitely required a gun-bearer to carry it. Baker was a big guy, and famously eccentric and fearless. On his first African expedition, he met with Speke and Burton in East Africa.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Nothing wrong with your math, "Baby" was, indeed, described as a 2-bore. Baker fired it from the shoulder. It was very heavy, I forget the weight but it definitely required a gun-bearer to carry it. Baker was a big guy, and famously eccentric and fearless. On his first African expedition, he met with Speke and Burton in East Africa.

Definitely a guy I need to learn about. Thanks for the insight!

 

[icebear]

Definitely a guy I need to learn about. Thanks for the insight!

The story of late 19th-century exploration in East Africa is fascinating. Burton, Speke, and Baker are giants. For an overview of the era, I highly recommend a two-volume set by Alan Moorhead, The White Nile and The Blue Nile. They are eminently readable, and the set I have is profusely illustrated. I first acquired these books when I was transferred to Nairobi in 1975, and I have referred to them many times since.

Samuel Baker (later Sir Samuel) was a big-game hunter who became an explorer. He explored a great deal of the upper Nile region in Sudan. He shot many elephants in Sudan, and kept his expedition provisioned with wild game.

As a sidebar, my girlfriend's grandfather, a Christian Arab from what is now Syria, rode with Kitchener's expedition against the followers of the Mahdi in Sudan. He was an interpreter, a skill so valuable to the British that interpreters were commissioned as officers. I have his sidearm in my gun safe, just holding it in safekeeping for a younger family member. We're expecting him to visit later this year, at which time we will fire the 7.65mm FN for the first time in over 100 years. The gun is still stored in an English biscuit-tin, wrapped in a piece of what looks like silk shirting, exactly as it was put away when its owner left the British colonial army and emigrated to the United States. There are even two boxes of original Belgian ammo, with eight rounds missing from one box when the owner test-fired the gun. I've been to Sudan, and visited the tomb of the Mahdi and the battlefield at Omdurman, where young Winston Churchill fought as a cavalry officer.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Icebear, that is as cool as it gets. Great personal stories of the past are always better than a history text book. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Unclekax]

The story of late 19th-century exploration in East Africa is fascinating. Burton, Speke, and Baker are giants. For an overview of the era, I highly recommend a two-volume set by Alan Moorhead, The White Nile and The Blue Nile. They are eminently readable, and the set I have is profusely illustrated. I first acquired these books when I was transferred to Nairobi in 1975, and I have referred to them many times since.

Samuel Baker (later Sir Samuel) was a big-game hunter who became an explorer. He explored a great deal of the upper Nile region in Sudan. He shot many elephants in Sudan, and kept his expedition provisioned with wild game.

As a sidebar, my girlfriend's grandfather, a Christian Arab from what is now Syria, rode with Kitchener's expedition against the followers of the Mahdi in Sudan. He was an interpreter, a skill so valuable to the British that interpreters were commissioned as officers. I have his sidearm in my gun safe, just holding it in safekeeping for a younger family member. We're expecting him to visit later this year, at which time we will fire the 7.65mm FN for the first time in over 100 years. The gun is still stored in an English biscuit-tin, wrapped in a piece of what looks like silk shirting, exactly as it was put away when its owner left the British colonial army and emigrated to the United States. There are even two boxes of original Belgian ammo, with eight rounds missing from one box when the owner test-fired the gun. I've been to Sudan, and visited the tomb of the Mahdi and the battlefield at Omdurman, where young Winston Churchill fought as a cavalry officer.
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You are an articulate and treasured member of this board in my opinion.
The stories and experiences you are willing to share here are the sorts of things I enjoy most.
Thanks for sharing.
Kax

 

[bloorooster]

You are an articulate and treasured member of this board in my opinion.
The stories and experiences you are willing to share here are the sorts of things I enjoy most.
Thanks for sharing.
Kax

I second that Kax!
Bloo

 

[icebear]

Thanks guys. I truly appreciate the kind words. I sometimes wonder if I am writing too much, too long, or too personal. It's good to know that somebody out there likes what I am doing. I was hesitant to write about my friend's grandfather in Sudan, because it's highly off-topic in relation to Sako collecting, but since there was interest in East Africa I decided to go ahead. I find the history of colonial East Africa fascinating, especially having lived and traveled there.

I must confess that, despite a career in which 90 percent of everything I ever wrote was classified, I sometimes enjoy being a performer. I've done TV in three languages and various countries. The video of my interview with Taiwanese TV while accompanying the Washington Redskins Cheerleaders on a publicity tour of Taiwan is absolutely hilarious. I was ambushed, in Chinese, as the girls were performing on the front steps of the National Museum in Taipei. My umms and ahhs were classic. Unfortunately, I only have a Beta tape of the encounter and I no longer own a Betamax. Maybe I should hit eBay so I can watch it again.

Once again, thanks. And thanks for all the great information on Sako, Tikka, and Valmet rifles, and all the hunting and collecting stories. I like it here; feels like a bit of home, whatever and wherever that is.

 

[bloorooster]

The Redskinettes! No Freaking Way! Was it the same year that KC and the Sunshine Band went along?
The Redskin Cheerleaders are (were) the longest running Cheerleaders in the NFL!


Icebear…you da man!

“Hail to the Redskins….”
bloo

 

[icebear]

Wow! I had no idea that old Taiwan TV clip had been posted on YouTube. Thanks Bloo for finding and posting it. That's me in the blue shirt and sunglasses speaking broken Chinese. The interviewer at one point compliments me on my Chinese, which in fact was heavily accented and not very fluent. I got that a lot. I think that to the locals, it was sort of like a talking dog - it's not how well he does it, it's that he can do it at all. The Redskinettes are performing on the steps of the National Museum, which holds one of the world's finest collections of Chinese art and antiquities. There are bunkers dug deep into the mountainside beneath the museum to store the collections in case of an invasion by mainland China. As I recall, we had a big boom box and a tape cassette with a recording of "Hail to the Redskins" for their performance. (KC and the Sunshine band were not involved. That must have been a different tour.)

Since Bloo has come up with this video, I'll tell the story of how it happened. It was actually my idea from the beginning. In 1982 I was chief of the commercial unit at the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT), which meant I was in charge of promoting US exports to Taiwan. AIT was and is the shadow US Embassy in Taiwan. Our agreement with China to open diplomatic relations prevents us from having formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan, which China claims as a "renegade province." So, we have a private, non-profit corporation called the American Institute in Taiwan (which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the National Security Council). It functions just like an embassy, but without the diplomatic titles. Taiwan has a counterpart in the US called the Coordinating Council for North American Affairs (CCNAA). When went to Taiwan, I resigned my Foreign Service commission and signed an employment contract with AIT.

Anyway, AIT-Taipei had a long-standing deal with a big local department store chain to hold promotions of US merchandise. Our part was to provide PR support and drum up interest. (I don't think a real Embassy could have gotten away with this - as a supposedly private corporation we had some extra room to operate.) Anyway, we had one of these promos scheduled for the summer of 1982 and we needed something big and new to keep our partners happy. Brainstorming on the phone with my Washington counterpart, I suggested we try to get the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. A week or two later, he called me back and said the Cowboys cheerleaders wanted a lot of money, but he could get the Redskinettes for expenses. I ran it past our Director, Jim Lilley (an old CIA Asia hand who later was Ambassador to China during the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre and sheltered dissident Wang Dan in the Embassy). He bought it, and it was full speed ahead.

The girls were great. The six of them were hand-picked for maturity and sophistication. They were fun to be with, and we had zero problems (except for the occasional complaint about the steady diet of Chinese food). We toured all around the island, performing at department stores and public venues. As their official escort, I was in the middle of everything and did the best I could to see that they were happy and comfortable. The Taiwanese loved it. We got lots of media attention and the store executives were ecstatic. It was one of the high points of my career.

Here are some photos from AIT-Taipei.

This is the cover of our annual guide to US business in Taiwan. The photo is one I took of the Redskinettes at the National Museum. Unfortunately, the print job is somewhat faded after 40 years.


Next, a cover from our trade promotion magazine. I completely revamped this publication, giving it a new name, changing it from English-only to fully bilingual and adding eye-catching graphics. This cover features one of my own photographs.


Another magazine cover with one of my photos. This was the publication of the Asia-Pacific Council of American Chambers of Commerce (APCAC). One of the best parts of my job was that I represented AIT at APCAC's semiannual meetings. That got me trips to Singapore, Jakarta, Bangkok, and Tokyo. This photo is from Bangkok.


And finally, here's a real curveball. Back in the 80's, Western models were in high demand for advertising all over East and Southeast Asia, including Taiwan. A young American who worked for me picked up side money appearing in local ads. One day he came to me saying one of his clients was looking for somebody to play a Swiss chef in a travel brochure, and was I interested. I said sure, why not. The result was this glossy magazine promoting American Express travel from Taiwan to Europe. I got fifty bucks, a free lunch, and a good story. That's me in chef's whites, presenting a plate to the nice Taiwanese lady.

 

[Bucktote]

Hi Icebear!!
One of my childhood,neighborhood friends was a right guard for the Redskins during the Lombardi years. like you, when he was young & single, I am sure enjoyed the proximity of those cheerleaders. He made it possible for me & my family to be dinner guests after a game in Atlanta with the Falcons. My boys were wide eyed as I was meeting all the players & coach lombardi. Back to the Sako AV stock project. I have provided a pic of the spare stock & having applied 9 coats Tru-Oil I think I will call it finished. The delema is which one to adorn the rifle with??? I guess they will both give the same POI as the barrel is floated on both. A trip to the farm will be in order when we start the prep for food plots soon. Keep well & all the best!! B/T
Edit 1. sorry, can't seem to place the pic in the text will get help!!! OK done!

 

[icebear]

If I'm doing the math right & by 2 bore they mean 2 round balls per pound, that's a 3500 grain ball!!!!! Was it "wagon" mounted? I'm going to have to read about that monster. I love Sako rifles, but Black Powder front stuffers are my addiction!

I did some research and found out a bit more about Sir Samuel Baker's famous "Baby." According to an article in Wikipedia, Baker did not describe the gun as a 2-bore and it was, in fact, closer to a 3-bore. The confusion arose because Baker described it as firing a half-pound projectile - the weight of a ball for a 2-bore - but it was in fact a shaped bullet, not a round ball. The rifle weighed about 20 pounds, and had so much recoil that even Baker only ever fired it about 20 times. Now, Wikipedia is not the most reliable of sources, but this article seemed to be well researched. 2-bore guns did exist, but as you suggest, they were punt guns mounted on boats. They were used by market hunters to kill masses of waterfowl at one shot. Here's the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_bore

I also found the article in Firearms News (formerly Shotgun News) about the guy who built a new 2-bore muzzle-loader, which he calls the Tyrannosaurus. Here's a link:
https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/tyrannosaurus-2-bore-rifle/365185

 

[hanco1]

I use Savage 99’s.

 

[waterwolf]

A new old rifle that I haven't used yet, but will take it deer hunting once I get some ammo made up.


Pre-war German Stutzen w/ Zeiss scope
Emil Kerner & Sohn, Suhl
Cal. 6.5 x57 Mauser
Circa 1912-14

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Absolutely awesome!!! Wonderful combination of beauty, form & function. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Bucktote]

Mr. Paulson says it all!
Perfect art, Craftsmanship & work of love ! B/T

 

[icebear]

Wow! A spectacular example of the gunmaker's art. Possibly the most beautiful rifle of its kind that I have ever seen. The proportions are right, the workmanship is superlative, and the engraving is just right to enhance the overall appearance. The patina of age on the wood is the final touch. It seems to glow from inside. I am, quite frankly, envious.

 

[clovis]

More Icebear, "Our Man Flint". Sausage server and Redskinettes. Tough duty, are they still hiring?

 

[Glam!]

When I go for elk, I enjoy my 264 Remington 700. When I'm feeling bold (AKA don't wanna lug around a heavy rifle), I strap on my 41 mag S&W 57