Did Sako ever manufacture a Finnbear in 270 WBY, 7mm WBY, or 300 WBY calibers?

[deergoose]

Great discussion here, guys. Did not know that there are open bolt shrouded AIIIs out there. 'Never say never' is our motto, right? One other way to look at this would be if I were to hand over a long action AV Sako to somebody not familiar with them and said "here's a Sako Finnbear" , he/she might ask, "what makes you call this thing a Finnbear?" I've always referred to these rifles as 'Finnbears', 'AIII Sporters', and 'AV Hunters' for L61R, AIII and AV actioned rifles respectively, and contend that it's only a Finnbear if "Finnbear" is stamped on the barrel. Nevermind what the paperwork and label states. 99% of the time it seems that these items are missing anyway. Same holds true for Foresters and Vixens, or course. Sako really confused us with the documentation, didn't they?

My $.02 worth,

DeerGoose

 

[L61R]

HerexB4s one oddity:
http://www.ace-gun.com/product_details.php?p=355
AV with an open shroud
IxB4ll post some more if I can remember where to find them!
JIM

 

[Guest]

Hey guys, just wanted to chime in here. I would tend to agree with Sstonecreek in that if we're only looking at barrel stampings then stonecreek's L461 would not be a vixen either.
Looking at the box in this post, I would think that Sako called this rifle a Finnbear, it is the most prominent word on the box. Also if you look at the manual for the Finnbear under Sako old models there is only one manual for the L61r, and the drawing in the manual clearly shows a shrouded bolt with a cocking indicator. I think the hunter was only a redesigned standard model with a palm swell, and all the other stock configurations still existed. In my opinion to sako this rifle was still a Finnbear.
I just wanted to stir things up a bit, I don't own a AIII, or an AV, but I do own a L691 and I do not think Sako called the L691 a Finnbear.

 

[L61R]

Hey dessertrunner!
You all are welcome to chime in!!

The thing is, I have a somewhat large collection of catalogs and such, from all over the world, and the Finnbear, Forester, Vixen names are nowhere to be seen after 78. Except for a few European catalogs from aprox 78-81.
I agree with DeerGoose here! _His explanation boils down to what I meant to say!
Have a nice weekend!
Jim

 

[mashburncs]

Gentlemen,
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge. It is probably time to quit beating this dead horse and move on to a new discussion.
Curtis

 

[stonecreek]

JIM! That photo of the shroudless A-V raises a lot of questions!

It appears to have both no shroud and a SHORT tang. This is truly out of the ordinary.

 

[L61R]

Stonecreek!
Another Sako mystery! They just donxB4t stop coming!

I have seen a Safari Grade with an AIII action BUT it had long tang just like the AIV. It has serial# 53xxxx so should be a pretty early Safari.
To me this only shows and re-renforces the fact that Sako used what they had at hand! Or maybe this AV in the link is just a concoction of some sort??? I have a small screen on my lap-top so I canxB4t see that good. Is it really a short tang?
Jim

 

[mrfiberclass]

The use of Finnbear, Forester and Vixen was first model names (with the L61R/L579/L461 stamped actions). AIII long actions was still called the Finnbear model (and was so stamped on the barrel). With the introduction of the Hunter model, the actions were stamped AV, AII and AI. However, the ACTIONS were still called Finnbear/Forester/Vixen AND L61R/L579/L461. Consequently, the switch from a model designation to an action designation is the root of confusion here.

 

[stonecreek]

Jim: I think that your observation that the Sako factory simply used whatever was on hand to assemble guns is a good one. For varying reasons, a factory might have earlier material on hand even after a changeover like the shrouded bolt or the long tang. There would be no reason to waste older but perfectly good material, so some of it would make its way into the normal production stream, perhaps when a production supervisor got "caught up" and had time to go through the inventory to utilize receivers, bolts, etc. that had been set aside for one reason or another.

This reminds me of the myth of the Phillips vs. cross slot screws in the grip caps. Somehow, the story got started that there was some great signficance to this and that one or the other represented some time frame, production changeover, change in heat treatment, change in metallurgy, change in stock dimensions, or no telling what other milestone in Sako production. The truth is, Sako used whatever screws its supplier happened to have that met their needs to simply hold a grip cap in place. Sometimes "Sven" came back from the vendor with Phillips screws, then when they sent "Olaf", he returned with some slot heads (pardon my misuse of Swedish names, but they're the closest my limited vocabulary can come to Finnish first names

).

 

[DanielYoungMP]

Guys!
The names where used differently depending on the markets. Sako has always called their actions L461, L579, L61R no matter what they are stamped with. For example, In the US, the Finnbear name was discontinued in 78 when the AIII came instead. Here in Scandinavia the Finnbear name lived for a while longer even if the actions were stamped AIII.
The same goes for short and medium actions too.
WexB4ve all seen "transition" guns like a L61R with shrouded bolt. The same goes for boxes, labels, manuals and other paraphernalia.

So basically Finnbear, Vixen, Hunter were model names up until 78. Then the rifles where called Standard, Sporter, Finnsport 2700 etc._
I attach a pic from a catalog issued by Sako Finland. ItxB4s from 89-90. Check the action names.
I have too little time today but I will try and add some more info on this subject.
Jim

I know this is an old thread but hopefully ill get a response. I have just purchased a Sako L61R (only stamped as such, not AIII or AV) with a shrouded bolt in .300 weatherby magnum. I was not aware that Sako made a 300 weatherby pre AV? Any info would be great. I can provide pics and serial number if i get a response. It also has a stock that is confusing me. It has some similarities to a Sako deluxe stock but the rosewood tip is angled the other way and im unsure if the checkering is the same or just similar.

Cheers Dan

 

[vigo]

Hello Dan,
I believe I can help you out. Carl.

 

[vigo]

Hey dessertrunner!
You all are welcome to chime in!!

The thing is, I have a somewhat large collection of catalogs and such, from all over the world, and the Finnbear, Forester, Vixen names are nowhere to be seen after 78. Except for a few European catalogs from aprox 78-81.
I agree with DeerGoose here! _His explanation boils down to what I meant to say!
Have a nice weekend!
Jim

Well that is interesting! The SCC president citing catalogs here on the forum, which he has also used as reference on other posts, yet no criticism? Aren't catalogs inaccurate and unreliable Secretary Stonecreek and Paulsonconstruction? Just curious. Carl.

 

[vigo]

Great discussion here, guys. Did not know that there are open bolt shrouded AIIIs out there. 'Never say never' is our motto, right? One other way to look at this would be if I were to hand over a long action AV Sako to somebody not familiar with them and said "here's a Sako Finnbear" , he/she might ask, "what makes you call this thing a Finnbear?" I've always referred to these rifles as 'Finnbears', 'AIII Sporters', and 'AV Hunters' for L61R, AIII and AV actioned rifles respectively, and contend that it's only a Finnbear if "Finnbear" is stamped on the barrel. Nevermind what the paperwork and label states. 99% of the time it seems that these items are missing anyway. Same holds true for Foresters and Vixens, or course. Sako really confused us with the documentation, didn't they?

My $.02 worth,

DeerGoose

Hello Deergoose,
I can post photos of the 1978 and 1979 original Stoeger SAKO catalogs that show the "A" model without the angled bolt shroud if you would like. The only problem is that they are catalogs and not typically considered to be accurate here. Carl

 

[stonecreek]

I have just purchased a Sako L61R (only stamped as such, not AIII or AV) with a shrouded bolt in .300 weatherby magnum. I was not aware that Sako made a 300 weatherby pre AV? Any info would be great. I can provide pics and serial number if i get a response. It also has a stock that is confusing me. It has some similarities to a Sako deluxe stock but the rosewood tip is angled the other way and im unsure if the checkering is the same or just similar.

Dan, this is very interesting! If you'll post some photos here maybe we can help unravel the mystery. Offhand, the rifle you have sounds as if it may have been customized, but maybe we can figure out its background with some photos and a serial number.

 

[stonecreek]

The only problem is that they are catalogs and not typically considered to be accurate here.

This 7 year-old thread, read in its entirety, is a sterling illustration of just how much conflicting and erroneous information catalogs, sales brochures, and similar promotional material can contain. The dozens of threads like this over the many intervening years have taught students of Sako that there are no absolutes, that there are always exceptions to any rule, that real and tangible Sako rifles are sometimes quite different from what might have been advertised contemporaneously with their production, that the aggregation of knowledge and information from diverse sources helps us see a clearer picture, and that old Sako catalogs are a great source of information when appropriately considered along with all of the other sources.

Vigo, we sincerely appreciate your sharing information from your vast collection of Sako promotional material. It can be very helpful. But please don't continue to take offense when some of that information is contradicted by evidence from actual rifles and records.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Well that is interesting! The SCC president citing catalogs here on the forum, which he has also used as reference on other posts, yet no criticism? Aren't catalogs inaccurate and unreliable Secretary Stonecreek and Paulsonconstruction? Just curious. Carl.

Unfortunately, Vigo has hijacked another thread & the first time poster got a false picture of our forum as being a site of argumentative rants instead of the info he requested. I don't recall saying anything derogatory about your catalogs, so I'm not sure why you targeted me for your childish sarcastic tantrum? Your reaction to what I thought was a simple exchange of info & questions seems a little thin skinned. This is the second time you have deliberately tried to start an argument on a thread that had nothing to do with the poster's question. The first time I didn't respond to your rantings. This will be the only time I respond, as I have no interest in petty arguments over nothing. Perhaps you should reflect on things before lashing out. I apologize to Daniel YoungMP & hope he posts some pics so we can be of help.

 

[DanielYoungMP]

Thanks guys, dont stress, i'm a politician so argumentative rants are something i'm quite familiar with. It certainly wont scare me off and i'll reserve forming opinions of the site until later.

This may not be the appropriate thread anyway so ill start a new thread with an intro to myself and the pics and info need to maybe find out more about this rifle. I am certain that stonecreek is correct about it being custom built.

 

[vigo]

Unfortunately, Vigo has hijacked another thread & the first time poster got a false picture of our forum as being a site of argumentative rants instead of the info he requested. I don't recall saying anything derogatory about your catalogs, so I'm not sure why you targeted me for your childish sarcastic tantrum? Your reaction to what I thought was a simple exchange of info & questions seems a little thin skinned. This is the second time you have deliberately tried to start an argument on a thread that had nothing to do with the poster's question. The first time I didn't respond to your rantings. This will be the only time I respond, as I have no interest in petty arguments over nothing. Perhaps you should reflect on things before lashing out. I apologize to Daniel YoungMP & hope he posts some pics so we can be of help.

I'm sorry!