Question about A1 mannlicher

[marininsanna]

Hello!

I just purchased Sako A1 mannlicher carbine in .223 caliber. I did some research on this particular rifle and would not find very much information about it. Even called directly to Sako rifle weaponsmith, who could not say anything else than it sounds weird combination. With some digging around it might seem that this kind of setup is some sort of Sakos import guns, or maybe not.

Does anyone have any information about this combination from overseas or am I missing some point on my researches? I dont yet have the rifle since its delivered to me some time next week. Bought it from armsdealer who also could not say really anything about it. Serial is 167xxx.

 

[icebear]

Not sure what information you are looking for here. An A1 Mannlicher carbine in .223 was a catalog item for several years. It's quite uncommon, even rare, but there's nothing weird about it. The A1 is basically the same action as the L461, except that the cocking piece on the bolt is hidden under a streamlined shroud. The barrel should be marked with the Sako name and the caliber.

 

[marininsanna]

Not sure what information you are looking for here. An A1 Mannlicher carbine in .223 was a catalog item for several years. It's quite uncommon, even rare, but there's nothing weird about it. The A1 is basically the same action as the L461, except that the cocking piece on the bolt is hidden under a streamlined shroud. The barrel should be marked with the Sako name and the caliber.

Im looking just for the info if its by any means "rare" or uncommon. Weird artefact is, that it comes with leather sling branded"whitehorse yt" which I believe means that the sling might be from Canada even the rifle maybe. Its coupled with Zeiss 6x32 scope. The finnish gun society or even Sako wont know much about this setup in this particular caliber. Barrel has original Sako markings and the caliber. Bought it for using to hunt grouses, fox and hare. Not by any means to shoot and calculate MOAs and stuff, will be happy if it can shoot in the size of grouse from lets say 75m.
Yes as finnish citizen Im familiar with the Sako markings on rifles and have some sort of picture of Sako rifles but this combination is not widely in the market here in Finland.

 

[gowyo]

We definitely need to see some pics! .222 and .222 Rem mag are fairly common in the L-461 mannlichers. AI’s are pretty rare, well, at least they don’t come up for sale very often

 

[stonecreek]

The A-series of Sakos were produced starting around 1980. It seems that by this time, for whatever reason, the full stock, or Mannlicher-style rifles and carbines had gone out of style in Europe, so not that many were sold there. At the same time, the Mannlichers gained something of a following in the U.S., so while very heavily outnumbered by half-stock rifles, there were quite a few Sako full-stocks sold in the U.S. Here they typically bring a premium and are a bit scarce but not rare.

If you had your AI Mannlicher .223 here in the U.S. you could probably trade it for two half-stock Sakos. In Europe, not so much.

 

[bloorooster]

Mannlicher style rifles do not lend well to the use of suppressors..

 

[Jeffy1]

I like those A 1 mannlicher carbines and they are accurate. Good triggers. I don't think I would call them rare, but more in the uncommon classification. Sounds like a keeper to me.

 

[gowyo]

I’ve only ever seen one A1 kokotukki with the hunter style stock( red pad, palm swell stock).

 

[icebear]

I have never fired an A1 carbine or any Sako carbine in .223. However, I have L461 carbines in .222 and .222 Magnum and both can shoot 2-3 cm groups at 100m. An A1 in .223 should show similar performance, so it should be quite suitable for bashing grouse, foxes, etc. at 75m. This is assuming that the gun is set up correctly and there are no issues such as a warped stock, overtightened barrel band, loose action screws, etc. The Zeiss 6x should be a good choice for this task.

Some of my .222's shoot very well with 40-grain bullets. Worth a try for small game.

 

[marininsanna]

We definitely need to see some pics! .222 and .222 Rem mag are fairly common in the L-461 mannlichers. AI’s are pretty rare, well, at least they don’t come up for sale very often

Will post photos in the near future.

The A-series of Sakos were produced starting around 1980. It seems that by this time, for whatever reason, the full stock, or Mannlicher-style rifles and carbines had gone out of style in Europe, so not that many were sold there. At the same time, the Mannlichers gained something of a following in the U.S., so while very heavily outnumbered by half-stock rifles, there were quite a few Sako full-stocks sold in the U.S. Here they typically bring a premium and are a bit scarce but not rare.

If you had your AI Mannlicher .223 here in the U.S. you could probably trade it for two half-stock Sakos. In Europe, not so much.

Yeah we only have love or hate feelings for mannlichers here in finland, no in between opinions. I quite like it though.

Mannlicher style rifles do not lend well to the use of suppressors..

Not gonna use supressors anyway...

I like those A 1 mannlicher carbines and they are accurate. Good triggers. I don't think I would call them rare, but more in the uncommon classification. Sounds like a keeper to me.

Yeah its confirmed, that trigger action and whole group hasnt been tampered or done any redneck operations.

I’ve only ever seen one A1 kokotukki with the hunter style stock( red pad, palm swell stock).

Not quite sure which style is that. This rifle has witish spacer and black thin pad, without palm swell.. at least that i can tell.

 

[marininsanna]

I have never fired an A1 carbine or any Sako carbine in .223. However, I have L461 carbines in .222 and .222 Magnum and both can shoot 2-3 cm groups at 100m. An A1 in .223 should show similar performance, so it should be quite suitable for bashing grouse, foxes, etc. at 75m. This is assuming that the gun is set up correctly and there are no issues such as a warped stock, overtightened barrel band, loose action screws, etc. The Zeiss 6x should be a good choice for this task.

Some of my .222's shoot very well with 40-grain bullets. Worth a try for small game.

Yeah that sounds wonderful accuracy, if id only achieve the same..
Curious about overtightening barrel band. Whats the correct way or torque to tighten the barrel bad? Only "snug" tight or something else?

 

[bloorooster]

Photos would be really helpful. Sound as if it’s possible to be an early A series transition rifle

 

[icebear]

Yeah that sounds wonderful accuracy, if id only achieve the same..
Curious about overtightening barrel band. Whats the correct way or torque to tighten the barrel bad? Only "snug" tight or something else?

In general I would say that the best place to start is where the screw is snug enough that it won't move, but not dead tight like an action screw. From there it may be necessary to tighten or loosen to tune the barrel resonance. It's more of an art than a science.

I found out about the barrel band from guys who shoot military m/39 rifles for accuracy. Once I read about them doing that, I started paying attention to the barrel bands on both my military rifles and Mannlicher-style hunting rifles.

Also, some of these rifles can be very picky about ammo. Most of my .222 Sakos really like Lapua 50 grain ammo.I've also had good results with 40 grain ammo in some guns.

 

[marininsanna]

In general I would say that the best place to start is where the screw is snug enough that it won't move, but not dead tight like an action screw. From there it may be necessary to tighten or loosen to tune the barrel resonance. It's more of an art than a science.

I found out about the barrel band from guys who shoot military m/39 rifles for accuracy. Once I read about them doing that, I started paying attention to the barrel bands on both my military rifles and Mannlicher-style hunting rifles.

Also, some of these rifles can be very picky about ammo. Most of my .222 Sakos really like Lapua 50 grain ammo.I've also had good results with 40 grain ammo in some guns.

Yes might start with action screws tightened if loose and just check that barrel band is somewhat snug and give some test shots and see how it performs (naturally after inspecting bore and bolt).

 

[marininsanna]

Rifle came, and its in pretty sweet condition. Action feels solid and the whole assembly feels firm in hands. Front sight protector is missing, if these came with the round thingy like .222 models. Scope has quick mount rings which im not yet sure if these will hold zero, if not then im gonna change them. Wood is in near minty condition. The rifle feels a bit "small" and nimble after 12 ga o/u shotgun that i have got used to. Time will tell if its any good. Even though it looks nice.

 

[icebear]

Very good looking rifle. The scope mounts appear to be EAW swing mounts. I have some experience with these and if they are properly installed they do return to zero without problems.

 

[marininsanna]

Very good looking rifle. The scope mounts appear to be EAW swing mounts. I have some experience with these and if they are properly installed they do return to zero without problems.

Im only thinking will the hold zero. Im not gonna take the scope off ever by using the quick release method. Its nice that the scope is thin hair style from the edges to center. Im not big fan of the more common cold war zeiss style duplex.

 

[Jeffy1]

I have had some experience with the EAWs. Good quality. Spendy. But they work.

 

[Spaher]

Do not replace the EAW scope mounts. They are solid, sought after & found on many African hunting rifles.
If you decide to replace them I bet you will sell them here on the first day.

 

[marininsanna]

I have had some experience with the EAWs. Good quality. Spendy. But they work.

Do not replace the EAW scope mounts. They are solid, sought after & found on many African hunting rifles.
If you decide to replace them I bet you will sell them here on the first day.

Oh lord good that i posted and heard your comments. Im not really keen on any type of quick mounts on anything around the house. Was allready searching "solid" mounts because i thought that these swing mounts are rubbish and poor mans wannabe hifi choice..