Riflescope Optics

[Spaher]

Just ran across an interesting article discussing optic scope quality of riflescopes & glass origin. Keeping in mind this is just their opinion and doesn’t change mine as I judge riflescopes on whether a type or brand or type works under low-light conditions in the field, ability to hold zero & predictable or repeatable dial response.

There is a comment that Leupold uses Japanese glass in their US mf’d scopes, as well as many USA scopes using Japanese glass, etc. BTW, Steiner is also owned by Beretta.


Site is snipercountry.com & titled “Long Range Optics Brands Ranked”.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Japanese glass lenses have been the preferred glass for the better made scopes for decades. I think their scope glass evolved from their quality camera manufacturing. Leupold has been using Japanese glass for 50 years or more as far as I know. The Austrians & Germans make their own glass, which is one reason they cost so much, as they can't produce their glass as cost effectively. Avoid glass made in China, although some scopes made in China do utilize Japanese glass on their higher end models. A & B tier scopes are the most bang for the Buck & for general use most hunters aren't going to discern much difference between the brands. Spending multiple thousands on a hunting scope is a fool's errand, IMHO but to each his own. I have several Trijicon products & the build quality & glass clarity is top shelf. I never hesitate to recommend their stuff. Recently bought a VX-Freedom Leupold, which is their entry level model. Was disappointed in the turret adjustments. They were soft & spongy & had no way to zero the turret graduations after you sighted in. Not as good of a scope as the older Vari-X models, yet they still command a relatively high price tag for what you get. I see now why the older Leupolds bring more money on eBay than the new Freedom model.

 

[bigcountry4me]

I know when articles are written and published often times they sort of miss the mark or don’t provide equally distributed information. I don’t necessarily disagree with the tiers but it seems like some brands weren’t listed - i.e. Leica, Trijicon, etc..

Also, it seems like some companies have been relegated into the A-tier even though they simply do produce S-tier products. For instance Nightforce and Leupold do in fact produce some of the best optics worldwide, but Leupold also produce entry level products. Nightforce has a lower tier option but not entry level.

The same can be said for Zeiss and Swarovski. I agree with Paulson’s opinion on the Freedom series, but Zeiss produces an entry level product which is no better or worse than many other brands including Leupold. but somehow Zeiss has been given top tier recognition.

Swarovski’s Z-3 lineup is a step up from comparable entry scopes but it’s a far cry from high end.

I suppose if I wrote an article I’d most likely/certainly leave something or someone out thus causing folks to question my ability to fairly and objectively rate whatever is being addressed. I also agree with Spaher related to “their opinion”. We all know what they say about opinions, right?

 

[South Pender]

Good points, bigcountry4me. That rank-ordering looks about right to me in a general sort of way, but I think it is organized to represent the various brands by their higher-end offerings. Zeiss, for example, should appear near the top with respect to their Victory line, but not really for their mid-range or entry-level lines. Their Victory and Conquest V6 scopes have German Schott glass, but the current entry-level V4 has Japanese glass and is made in Japan.

I think the very best glass comes from Europe--Germany and Austria. Of the scopes listed in the top or S tier, all but March use German (or Austrian) ED glass for their higher-end lines. The second brand in the S tier (which is a little hard to make out) is Zero Compromise (ZCO) which are made in Austria. One brand that is missing in the rankings is Leica, and I suspect it also would appear in the S tier, as its top lines are German-made with German ED glass. Another brand missing in the rankings that I’d be curious about is Meopta, a Czech company.

Bigcountry4me, I was interested in your comments about the Swarovski Z3 line. I've used a lot of Z3s (or their predecessor 3-9x36 AV scopes) over the years and also have Z5s and now one Z6. The latter two lines do offer a larger zoom range and some additional features, but I have to say it's hard to discern any real superiority in the glass--or clarity of image--for them over the Z3. At least to my aging eyes! I've read in a couple of places that, despite being assembled in the US, the lenses for the Z3s are made in Austria. This doesn't mean that they are ED glass (and I don't believe they are), but they are definitely top grade.

 

[bigcountry4me]

At least to my aging eyes!

Mine too!! I think we’re on the same page with your Zeiss observation.

So I believe the Z3 is a very good mid range optic and have a couple. Never have owned a Z5. However, my vintage Habicht’s appear sharper from edge to edge across all the power ranges. Typically vintage 4-12 and 3-9’s are priced on par with new Z3’s.

I also have a Z6 which to me is on a different level all together. Of course my Z6 was over twice the price of a Z3, so I guess better optical quality should be the expectation.

For me, a stronger comparison would be to rate S-tier brands and models, then A-tier brands and models- and so-on. Obviously, in my way of comparing, several brands would be included in several tiers.

Edit: the same comparison could apply to binoculars. Personally, I use Swarovski 10-42 EL HD. I’ve looked at the latest and greatest but by my eyes, they simply don’t compare.

 

[icebear]

BTW, Steiner is also owned by Beretta.

That's interesting, thanks. I didn't know that. Steiner has some kind of co-production arrangement with Burris. As best I can figure, some Steiner brand scopes sold in the USA are made in Colorado by Burris, using German glass provided by Steiner. The tubes and adjustment turrets seem to be identical to comparable Burris models. I have a 2.5-10x Steiner marked "assembled in USA" on my Steyr SSG-69 sniper rifle and I would rate it as excellent - bright, clear, and sharp.

 

[stonecreek]

The rankings are mostly about the optical quality and don't take into account how well adapted to a particular usage a scope is. Weight, compactness, forgiving eye relief, wide field of view, and waterproofness are all very important factors if your scope is primarily a hunting scope which will be used under a wide range of conditions. A scope with brilliant optics and pinpoint adjustments is great for a dedicated bench rifle, but if it weighs two pounds, is 18 inches long, and has critical eye placement it is totally unfit as a hunting scope. In optics everything is a trade-off (magnification vs. field of view; eye relief vs. field of view; objective size vs. exit pupil; objective size vs. compactness; adjustments vs. sealing; tube diameter vs. adjustment range; number of lenses vs. light transmission; and so on), so a telescope used as an optical gunsight has to be purpose-designed for its end use, not just be a good telescope.

There is also such thing as reaching a point of diminishing returns in attempting to perfect a riflescope. Paulson points this out in his "bang for the buck" comment. You might spend 5X the money for super high quality optics, but the deer won't be any deader. In fact, with some of those ultra-expensive European scopes you may never find the deer in the sight picture due to the optical trade-offs that limit the eye placement of the scope.

 

[P04R]

For my eye Swarovski is the top pick every single time. The eye box seems very forgiving compared to most. The image quality is unmatched and the scopes themselves are light and streamlined. Recently they did make some strange plays with the 0.75x zoom and bulkier turrets on the Z8 line, but still. If I had the money I would get couple more of the Z6's.

Steiner's NightHunter line might come close in image quality, but the scopes are extremely heavy and the turrets are just massive. Their 70 year edition had smaller turrets and was quite nice package, but unfortunately it was available for a very short time before the whole NH line was discontinued. I blame Beretta. Nowadays only Steiners made in Germany are the massive military scopes. All the rest are made somewhere in SE-Asia.

 

[Spaher]

I’m a vintage Leupold & Nightforce compact fan although I’ve bought used Zeiss dialyt & Victory models,and a Schmidt & Bender Klassic.
All clear & accurate response on dials when sighting in. Reticle offerings are a make or break deal as I prefer modified German posts, Moar &/or 3 post types. Regrettably Premier reticles out of business & Leupold Custom shop no longer offers reticle or turret changes.
I’d like to have some new European scopes but the price exceeding my rifle costs are hard to justify. A good scope & good binos are a necessity. I don’t believe in long range hunting as it shows zero woodsman skills & relegated to a form of range shooting with dial synchronizing, but yet decked out in camo.

 

[bloorooster]

A good scope & good binos are a necessity. I don’t believe in long range hunting as it shows zero woodsman skills & relegated to a form of range shooting with dial synchronizing, but yet decked out in camo.

AMEN…
I shoot Leupold for the most, with additional glass from Burris and Weaver (vintage models)
I also use a Bausch & Lomb Balvar set-up
I also like the German Post type reticle, as it leaves the topside sight picture unobscured.
The camo thing … lol I just wear it out of tradition and habit. Blaze orange is safe..ok I get that..but I’ve always felt that if there was one color that Whitetail immediately associate with danger .. it’s blaze orange.

 

[Bucktote]

Hi Bloo.
I too wear cammo because that's what I got when I was hunting in tree stands & hunting turkeys . You can see what I use when hunting from the <---- ground blinds in my ID pic. & Blaze orange going to the stand. Blue genes are a color deer see very well, but in a ground blind they are OK
I too use mostly Leupold VX 2 & 3 scopes as the are the best for the money & the warranty is good. Be safe & all the best! B/T

 

[gowyo]

I, too, am a vintage Leupold fan. Vari-X III’s, VX-111 era. 4.5x14x40 with the AO; 2.5x8; 6.5x20 are my favs. I have a few other models. All of my sakos wear them sans one, i have one Meopta 3x12x50…well my son does on his M591 .243.

 

[tikkasako6.5]

Just ran across an interesting article discussing optic scope quality of riflescopes & glass origin. Keeping in mind this is just their opinion and doesn’t change mine as I judge riflescopes on whether aView attachment 30545 type or brand or type works under low-light conditions in the field, ability to hold zero & predictable or repeatable dial response.

There is a comment that Leupold uses Japanese glass in their US mf’d scopes, as well as many USA scopes using Japanese glass, etc. BTW, Steiner is also owned by Beretta.


Site is snipercountry.com & titled “Long Range Optics Brands Ranked”.View attachment 30546

 

[tikkasako6.5]

I would offer that at least half of these brands have a wide range of glass, reticle and turret quality. It makes no sense to simply categorise a brand as having 'brilliant glass', simply because of the name? Btw, Beretta owns Burris too, and that firm has elcheapos thru 'brilliant' glass, and some awful turrets at the lower end IMO.

 

[icebear]

Btw, Beretta owns Burris too,

That explains why Burris is building Steiner scopes!

Excellent point that many manufacturers make products with a wide variety of price and quality. In many cases we need to look at individual products, not just a brand name.

It's also worth mentioning that some of the major brands are sourcing lower-priced optics in the Philippines. Some of them are quite good, and excellent value for money.

 

[Bucktote]

Hello fellow Sako shooters,
Would some one please explain what the meaning of Paralex means when looking thru a scope. My AO Leupold has several settings & I let it stay on 200' ? B/T

 

[tikkasako6.5]

You may get a ton of replies on the meaning of 'paralax', and truthfully it is most easily explained in the field. But, how about this?......at the back of the scope you will already have turned the dial to make the reticle lines and dots and numbers appear nice and sharp, for YOUR eye. Now, if you focus the left-side turret on a target, especially at distance, you will notice you can turn the turret some finite amount and the target still appears in focus. Now keep your hands off the gun and move your eye up and down and side to side. You will notice that, most of the time, the cross hairs move off the target some too. Adjust the left-side turret till the cross hairs do not move off the target. Now you have removed the 'parallax' difference between the scope designer and YOUR eye. The scope is designed to be in focus at some exact distance, but your eye enjoys a certain 'range of slight error'. Hope this helps, there are a slew of vids on the subject. NOTE: you have to go thru this process at each distance, or mark your leftside turret.

 

[Bucktote]

You may get a ton of replies on the meaning of 'paralax', and truthfully it is most easily explained in the field. But, how about this?......at the back of the scope you will already have turned the dial to make the reticle lines and dots and numbers appear nice and sharp, for YOUR eye. Now, if you focus the left-side turret on a target, especially at distance, you will notice you can turn the turret some finite amount and the target still appears in focus. Now keep your hands off the gun and move your eye up and down and side to side. You will notice that, most of the time, the cross hairs move off the target some too. Adjust the left-side turret till the cross hairs do not move off the target. Now you have removed the 'parallax' difference between the scope designer and YOUR eye. The scope is designed to be in focus at some exact distance, but your eye enjoys a certain 'range of slight error'. Hope this helps, there are a slew of vids on the subject. NOTE: you have to go thru this process at each distance, or mark your leftside turret.

Only have two turrets, top turret for elevation, & right side turret for windage??

 

[tikkasako6.5]

Only have two turrets, top turret for elevation, & right side turret for windage??

Many short range (to about 300 yards) hunting scopes, say 4-12 power, 3-9 power, 2-7, 1-4 etc., are pre-adjusted to be focused at ONE distance, often about 150 yards for a 3-9. Then you have NO ability to adjust for parallax. But, you are closer to the target, so parallax error has less of a 'range'. Older scopes often have the focus (therefore parallax) adjustment at the very front on the 'objective' lens. Btw, if you're hunting to say 300 yards or less, parallax error is small and not worth the worry, IMO. Just make sure you line up your eye to the scope's reticle & cross-hairs the same way, every time.

 

[South Pender]

Only have two turrets, top turret for elevation, & right side turret for windage??

Tikkasako6.5 is referring to the side focus knob (appearing on the left side of the turret, in addition to the windage and elevation knobs) that adjusts for parallax in a scope that has side parallax adjustment. Most of the more-recent parallax-adjustable scopes use this side focus feature. The other form of parallax adjustment is via an adjustable objective, seen on many of the older Leupold scopes, including your AO Leupold scope. Where Tikkasako6.5 has mentioned adjustment by the side focus knob, just substitute the adjustable objective ring.