NEW GUY

[barrya]

My first ever Sako is on its way. It is a Sako Vixen HB 222 Remington. Not sure of the vintage. It comes with a Stith base but no rings. Does anyone know the dove tail size? Thanks. Barry

 

[paulsonconstruction]

The dovetails are unique to Sako. They are tapered with the front being larger than the rear, therefore, the front & rear rings are a different size & not interchangeable. The most common option is a pair of one piece ringmounts, either original Sako or Leupold, of the appropriate height for the scope you intend to use, that clamp directly to the dovetails. There is no "size"! All Sako dovetails are the same on all their rifles. Just buy ringmounts made for Sakos. Vixen is a term used to describe any small action Sako. Yours could be a L46, L461, AI, S491, or even the 75 or current Model 85. Pics or a better description of the action stampings would help confirm what Model it is.

 

[barrya]

It is a L46. It is coming with a Stith base. I was wondering if anyone knew the dovetail size on the Stith mount. I will likely take the Stith off and mount directly. thanks. Barry

 

[icebear]

The Stith bases actually work pretty well. The Stith rings are vertically split and the pair I have are for a 26mm scope tube, which is great if you want to put a German/Austrian scope on it. This is because the Stith mounting system was set up for the old Kollmorgen Bear Cub scopes, which were originally 26mm. Later on, those scopes became Redfield and changed to 1" tubes. I don't know if Stith ever made 1" rings or not - the rings I have would require thin shims to hold a 1" scope tightly. I'll mike the rail on mine for you tomorrow; I can't do it now because the mount is in another building and it's raining.

Stith mounts are held in place with set screws. I've replaced the set screws in mine with brass so they don't mar the checkering on top of the Sako dovetails.

Here's what the Stith base and rings look like on an L46.

 

[barrya]

Thanks, icebear. that is the base I am getting with my rifle. if it gets to be too much of a problem I will likely just get some leupold rings. I guess what I was hoping for was the dovetail being something somewhat standard so I could attach to the Stith base. Thanks you for taking the time to help-I appreciate it. Barry

 

[icebear]

The rain finally let up so I went out to the shop and miked the Stith rail. Bad news. It's a bit under 1/2" (measured at about 12.4mm), which matches no other standard dovetail that I am aware of. Standard .22 dovetail mounts are 3/8" or 11mm. Millett windage adjustable .22 rings could probably be made to work on a Stith mount, but you would probably have to file some off the bottom of the clamps to get the rings to sit all the way down on the rail. Tikka dovetails are 16mm, which is way too big. There are oddball European mounts that use a 13mm dovetail, but I have no idea where you would find such a thing.

On the other hand, Stith rings aren't hard to find and usually cheap when you find them. Gunbroker and eBay are good sources. As I mentioned before, I am not sure if they were made in 1" or only 26mm. I wouldn't trust most sellers to know the difference. It's easy enough to make a thin brass shim to adapt a 1" scope to a 26mm ring. I don't know what the height range for them is; that might or might not be an issue depending on the scope you plan to use.

If you decide not to use the Stith mount, I'd recommend spending a little extra and getting a set of traditional-style Sako rings. That's what Sako made for the L46, L461, and AII series rifles. For any scope you'd want on a heavy barrel rifle, you'll most likely need the high rings, which are good up to about a 40-42mm objective diameter. My L461 heavy barrel has a 12x Leupold with a 40mm adjustable objective in Sako high rings. The later-production rings, which are still windage adjustable but have wrap-around ring tops, are slightly taller than the original horizontally split rings. Warne also made an excellent vertically-split ring for Sako, but they have been discontinued. I've seen them on eBay at reasonable prices. The Leupolds are fine and a lot of our members swear by them, but I'm not a fan. You need to be sure the front ring is in just the right place to center it, as the geometry dictates that it will move to the left as you push it forward and right as you move it back.

There's also the traditional Redfield style bases. They are windage adjustable; you can get any size rings you want and offset rings as well. I've got some you can have cheap if you're interested.

Feel free to ask for any more details or information. Here's a photo of my heavy-barrel L461 in .222 Magnum with a 12x40mm Leupold in Sako high rings.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Try some 3/8" dovetails rings, if you have a set handy. They may just work! Let us know!!

 

[stonecreek]

Not to highjack this thread, but does anyone know what ringmount fits the Anschutz grooves on their .22 Hornet and .222 Remington (Model 1532?) They seem shallow and narrow for a regular tip-off mount.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Not to highjack this thread, but does anyone know what ringmount fits the Anschutz grooves on their .22 Hornet and .222 Remington (Model 1532?) They seem shallow and narrow for a regular tip-off mount.

My understanding is the American way of measuring, & thus labeling, a dovetail size is to measure the narrowest part or "in the groove" which makes a 3/8" dovetail 9.5mm(3/8") wide in the groove & about 13mm wide across the top. The Metric or European way of measuring is always across the top at it's widest point. So, a 3/8"(9.5mm groove to groove) dovetail is actually wider than an 11mm dovetail at the top. I know this difference can be very confusing when ordering rings for the Euro rimfires. Add in the difference in groove angles, depth of grooves, & whether the dovetails are a rail (flat on top), or in a barrel/round action (round on top) can also make a difference in what rings will work. Suffice it to say that the gun industries failure to standardize this is ridiculous & many times forces the customer into a trial & error solution. So, stonecreek I would measure your dovetail the European way & use that measurement to get the rings you need, while crossing your fingers. Some rings are made for flat tops, some for round tops, & some are relieved for use on both. Good Luck!

 

[barrya]

The rain finally let up so I went out to the shop and miked the Stith rail. Bad news. It's a bit under 1/2" (measured at about 12.4mm), which matches no other standard dovetail that I am aware of. Standard .22 dovetail mounts are 3/8" or 11mm. Millett windage adjustable .22 rings could probably be made to work on a Stith mount, but you would probably have to file some off the bottom of the clamps to get the rings to sit all the way down on the rail. Tikka dovetails are 16mm, which is way too big. There are oddball European mounts that use a 13mm dovetail, but I have no idea where you would find such a thing.

On the other hand, Stith rings aren't hard to find and usually cheap when you find them. Gunbroker and eBay are good sources. As I mentioned before, I am not sure if they were made in 1" or only 26mm. I wouldn't trust most sellers to know the difference. It's easy enough to make a thin brass shim to adapt a 1" scope to a 26mm ring. I don't know what the height range for them is; that might or might not be an issue depending on the scope you plan to use.

If you decide not to use the Stith mount, I'd recommend spending a little extra and getting a set of traditional-style Sako rings. That's what Sako made for the L46, L461, and AII series rifles. For any scope you'd want on a heavy barrel rifle, you'll most likely need the high rings, which are good up to about a 40-42mm objective diameter. My L461 heavy barrel has a 12x Leupold with a 40mm adjustable objective in Sako high rings. The later-production rings, which are still windage adjustable but have wrap-around ring tops, are slightly taller than the original horizontally split rings. Warne also made an excellent vertically-split ring for Sako, but they have been discontinued. I've seen them on eBay at reasonable prices. The Leupolds are fine and a lot of our members swear by them, but I'm not a fan. You need to be sure the front ring is in just the right place to center it, as the geometry dictates that it will move to the left as you push it forward and right as you move it back.

There's also the traditional Redfield style bases. They are windage adjustable; you can get any size rings you want and offset rings as well. I've got some you can have cheap if you're interested.

Feel free to ask for any more details or information. Here's a photo of my heavy-barrel L461 in .222 Magnum with a 12x40mm Leupold in Sako high rings.

View attachment 16904

icebear-let me see what I can come up with-I may be interested in the Redfield base. I am looking for a GLOSS scope also. One I have looked at is a Leupold 12X like yours. How do you like it? I will be using it on prairie dogs. Sometimes the mirage gets so bad anything over 15X is wasted. Thanks for all your info. Barry

 

[icebear]

I have been quite happy with the 12x Leupold. It's sharp, clear, and bright and I think it's about the right power level for a .222. The one on my rifle has a target type elevation turret, which is one of those things that's nice to have but far from necessary. It's worth mentioning that the Leupold 4-12x, 3.5-10x, and 4.5-14x AO scopes all appear to be built on the same tube as the 12x, so they all mount the same. I have two each of the 4-12 and 3.5-10, and one 4.5-14. The objective on a non-AO version will be slightly smaller in diameter, giving slightly more clearance over the barrel.

Glossy scopes are getting harder to find. Leupold scopes now come with a matte finish; glossy is a pricey special-order option. You can still get glossy Leupold and Burris scopes in like-new condition on the secondary market at reasonable prices. I see nice ones occasionally at gun shows. I have a 12x Burris with a gloss finish that I'm thinking about selling; if you're interested, send me a PM and I can send you details and photos.

 

[icebear]

Try some 3/8" dovetails rings, if you have a set handy. They may just work! Let us know!!

I tried that with two different sets of US-style .22 rings. Both held the ring onto the dovetail cockeyed, not allowing the flat of the ring to set flat on the top of the mount. This was due in both cases to the design of the clamping piece, which lifted the clamping side up when the clamp was tightened. One of them probably could have been made to work with some filing. The other, not so much. This was why I suggested the Millett windage adjustable .22 rings - they would also probably require filing, but it would be relatively easy to file both clamps the same so the ring would sit flat. I still think the best way to go with the Stith mount is to find a set of original rings. I've seen them pretty cheap on eBay.

I also measured some .22 dovetails. I couldn't get precise measurements because my digital caliper wouldn't fit under the scopes, but I was able to get pretty good measurements with a metal scale. All measurements are across the top, not in the grooves. The dovetail on a CZ rimfire was just about the nominal 11mm. A Ruger 10/22 was about 13mm, while a Remington Nylon 66 measured a bit under 11mm.

 

[icebear]

Not to highjack this thread, but does anyone know what ringmount fits the Anschutz grooves on their .22 Hornet and .222 Remington (Model 1532?) They seem shallow and narrow for a regular tip-off mount.

What is the measurement across the top of the dovetail, in millimeters? Some small-caliber European centerfire rifles use the 11mm rimfire dovetail. Another fairly standard size is 16mm, used by Tikka and the CZ 527. I think there may also be a 13mm, but I've never actually seen one of those. As Paulson has pointed out, the angle and depth of a European dovetail differs somewhat from an American one, so it's best to match a ring designed for a European fit with a European rifle. If it's an 11mm, I think Warne makes a ring that will fit an 11mm Euro dovetail.

 

[barrya]

What kind of reputation do the Conetrol base and rings for Sako have? Have heard of them for years but never could afford. Barry

 

[icebear]

What kind of reputation do the Conetrol base and rings for Sako have? Have heard of them for years but never could afford. Barry

They are beautiful and they hold a zero if you install them right. Installing them is a pain, but worth it for a special rifle. They are adjustable for windage. I've got a set on a custom Sako. There are all kinds of variations available - 1" and 30mm rings, various heights, and glossy, matte, or satin finish. The rings are vertically split with a cap to hold them together. They are machined in one piece and then cut. The seams are almost invisible.

Here's a photo of Conetrol mounts on a custom L461 Vixen. Scope is a 4-12x Burris compact.

 

[barrya]

Thanks, again, icebear. Barry

 

[stonecreek]

Paulson & Icebear: Thanks for the responses. I tried Leupold rimfire ringmounts but they wouldn't work at all (I've forgotten just where the misfit was, but suffice it to say they would not clamp down on the Anschutz grooves.) I next tried Millett (which I've used on Sako .22's) and they would clamp, but left the ring base sitting above the surface of the receiver with only the narrow clamps holding the mount suspended. This didn't look "sustainable". The Milletts also needed for both clamps to be screwed down to their minimum in order to tighten on the Anschutz grooves.

I was able to mount the scope by finding some Weaver bases to fit the D&T holes in the receiver. However, the bases are on the thick side and even with low rings from Burris the scope mounts higher than I would like. It would be nice to have the scope an eighth to 3/16ths of an inch lower, but lacking any other mounting solution I suppose I can get by with what I have.

Seems like someone would make a tip-off ringmount specifically for the Anschutz.

 

[stonecreek]

What kind of reputation do the Conetrol base and rings for Sako have? Have heard of them for years but never could afford. Barry

If this was for a hunting rifle you intend to use this fall then I wouldn't recommend the Conetrols. However, since it is for a prairie dog rifle and you presumably have until late spring next year to get them mounted, then you might have time to mount them between now and then, especially if you set aside a number of long winter evenings to devote to the task. I have just one rifle mounted with the beautiful Conetrol rings. That scope will never come off as long as I am alive since actuarily I won't live long enough to mount another in those rings.

Of course, if you have feet like a chimpanzee with a dexterous opposed big toe, the Conetrols can be mounted in only weeks, not months. That's assuming you don't require the crosshairs to be perfectly vertical.

 

[barrya]

stonecreek-thanks for letting me know about those Conetrol mounts. They sound like I need to look elsewhere. Barry

 

[paulsonconstruction]

stonecreek-thanks for letting me know about those Conetrol mounts. They sound like I need to look elsewhere. Barry

The Leupolds are the most streamlined, cleanest, lightest ringmounts for a Sako if those are the features most desirable to you. I use them on nearly all of my Sakos & have never had an issue with zeroing or durability. They can still be acquired in the Gloss finish, but not easily. I bought a set of Gloss Leupolds just a couple months ago from a LGS. They had none in stock (and never do), but said if I could wait until they made there routine order to stock Leupold products they could add it to their order. Two months later, @ twice the price of the matte finished rings, I had my set of Gloss rings that matched my glossy M8- 10x scope fairly well. BTW, regarding your inquiry on the Leupold 12x, the older M8 fixed 10x or 12x scopes are pretty much a perfect scope for PD shooting & can be bought for $300 or less on the used market. With Leupold's fantastic warranty it's a no brainer at half the cost of a new FXIII. Plus they all have the gloss finish you are looking for & you can have Leupold change the reticle to your liking depending on the scope's serial number. Just food for thought!