Sako Finland Torques for Vintage Sako Rings

[Texas Chinook]

I recently posted pictures of what turned out t0 be Redfield scope bases/rings that had lived on my Sako Forester for many years. They were too low for a better scope so I recently acquired a very nice set of vintage Sako mounts.

I have little idea how the windage screws should be used - other than to leave the smaller nuts alone (they were already tight) and just tighten using the larger nuts. What could go wrong???

For now, can someone please advise what the torques should be; both for the base windage nuts and for the ring screws? Since the windage nuts have bolt ends in the middle of their slots, I'm hoping that tightening with fingers is OK. I see the rear base has a small lip which will prevent the base from sliding forward during recoil - so having the windage nuts super tight should not be important...

Thanks!

 

[lord frith]

I recently posted pictures of what turned out t0 be Redfield scope bases/rings that had lived on my Sako Forester for many years. They were too low for a better scope so I recently acquired a very nice set of vintage Sako mounts.

I have little idea how the windage screws should be used - other than to leave the smaller nuts alone (they were already tight) and just tighten using the larger nuts. What could go wrong???

For now, can someone please advise what the torques should be; both for the base windage nuts and for the ring screws? Since the windage nuts have bolt ends in the middle of their slots, I'm hoping that tightening with fingers is OK. I see the rear base has a small lip which will prevent the base from sliding forward during recoil - so having the windage nuts super tight should not be important...

Thanks!

View attachment 19886

Hi,
I am going to take the shot. Those are finger nuts and have knurling for a reason-for your fingers to grip and nothing else. The driver slot for removal when threads become corrupted.
I'm ready.
Stephen

 

[South Pender]

Regarding the large windage thumbscrew, the usual advice has been to tighten it finger-tight and then give it just slightly more with a proper screwdriver--maybe 1/8 turn. However, it is important to use the right screwdriver for this because of the blockage in the middle of the screw slot. Here's a great explanation of this by member icebear:

https://sakocollectors.com/forum/threads/sako-scope-ring-tips-use-the-proper-tools.13883/

As for the ring screws, most scope-mount makers recommend something on the order of 15-18 in.-lbs torque for their ring screws. I've never seen a value suggested for the four ring screws in each Sako mount, but I'd be very careful not to over-tighten them. The last thing you want is to strip the threads of either the screws or the bottom of the ring. Although you haven't mentioned this, it's not recommended that you use loctite on ring screws.

One thing I do when mounting a scope is to sprinkle a little powdered rosin on the inside of the rings. This provides some friction between the rings and the scope body.

 

[CVCOBRA1]

Use Icebear's advice. DO NOT use the screw driver out of your "tool" drawer.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

I recently posted pictures of what turned out t0 be Redfield scope bases/rings that had lived on my Sako Forester for many years. They were too low for a better scope so I recently acquired a very nice set of vintage Sako mounts.

I have little idea how the windage screws should be used - other than to leave the smaller nuts alone (they were already tight) and just tighten using the larger nuts. What could go wrong???

For now, can someone please advise what the torques should be; both for the base windage nuts and for the ring screws? Since the windage nuts have bolt ends in the middle of their slots, I'm hoping that tightening with fingers is OK. I see the rear base has a small lip which will prevent the base from sliding forward during recoil - so having the windage nuts super tight should not be important...

Thanks!

View attachment 19886

The "smaller" nuts, as you call them, are for adjusting the rings for windage & the only way they can be "tight," if not mounted on the dovetail, is if they are screwed in all the way, which is not a good start. You need to set your scope in the ringmount without the top ring & turn the "windage" screws in conjunction with the clamp screws until you get the scope centered on both rings so it slides back & forth without resistance & it is also fairly center with the barrel. You do this by turning both the windage screws & the clamp screws to properly align things. This is all dependent on "where" the ringmounts are located on the dovetails. You can look at the clamps from the side of the ring & get them fairly centered before setting the scope in them. NOT understanding how the Sako ring/dovetail system works is the best way to mess up your scope tube. If you don't align the ringmounts properly with your scope you will marr & dent your scope tube when you tighten the rings. It's not unlike aligning any scope mounting system, which most people don't do, it's just that Sako was ingenious enough to design a system that could be align by simply turning the mount screws, instead of turning rings within a dovetail, lapping rings, & turning windage screws on the rear mount. BTW, the taper of the dovetails is what resists the ring from sliding forward under recoil, not the "lip". Recoil actually helps to tighten the rings grip on the dovetail.

 

[Texas Chinook]

Agreed! I have a small set of Foresters. To take off the Redfield rings, I had to grind the width of the #2 driver. The #1 was too small and I actually deformed it in the trying (nooooo... don’t ever do that).

Always use the right tools! My order with Brownells has already been placed.

Thanks

 

[Texas Chinook]

BTW, the taper of the dovetails is what resists the ring from sliding forward under recoil, not the "lip". Recoil actually helps to tighten the rings grip on the dovetail.

Thanks "Paulsonconstruction" for your very useful comments. I must now wait until Friday for Brownells to send me my Weaver/Sako screwdriver tip so I can properly address this scope mounting matter.

The comment about about the Sako taper keeping scope bases from moving is especially true with bases like the Redfields I had on this Sako before. They actually rely on the taper to keep them from shifting. Unlike the Redfields, the Sako bases are free to move back/forth along the taper until they are tightened, after which, of course, they will be held better by the taper.

One final question: I believe the rear Sako base should be installed with the "tip" at the back of the receiver. There's a small semi-circular recess in the scope mounting taper that seems to like having the tip there. Also, putting the tip at the front puts a lot of the base out over the bolt opening.

Thanks.

 

[Texas Chinook]

PS. I did a search here for "favorite oils" thinking this would be a vastly explored topic; but nothing came up. Can someone point me to a thread talking about oils and which ones we Sako tenders (I don't say owners because we are just passing through and our Sakos will likely see many "tenders" over the years... but that's another topic altogether) like best. Thanks!

 

[South Pender]

One final question: I believe the rear Sako base should be installed with the "tip" at the back of the receiver. There's a small semi-circular recess in the scope mounting taper that seems to like having the tip there. Also, putting the tip at the front puts a lot of the base out over the bolt opening.
Thanks.

Yes, that's right; the stud on the rear mount drops into the semi-circular recess in the receiver. I don't think you could get the rear mount on if you reversed this and had the stud at the front of the back half of the receiver. The tapered slope of the mount clamps would be opposite to that on the receiver.

Some Sako owners file the stud off the rear mount in order to provide a little more flexibility in the mounting position--perhaps moving it forward a little to accommodate a scope with a very short mounting space between the ocular and objective flare-outs.

 

[Texas Chinook]

Some Sako owners file the stud off the rear mount in order to provide a little more flexibility in the mounting position

Aawwkkkk... grind your Redfield bases until the cows come home but surely no one would deface a vintage Sako base...

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Aawwkkkk... grind your Redfield bases until the cows come home but surely no one would deface a vintage Sako base...

The stud/lug in the rear of a Sako ringmount or Opti-lok base is not necessary & many times needs to be ground off in order to position the scope far enough forward for proper eye relief & is a common practice, especially on variable scopes where the power adjustment ring interferes. The only purpose I can figure out for the stud is the ability to take the scope off & then remount it in the same position & for positioning a rear peep sight stud consistently. The stud actually works against the self tighten aspect of the dovetails. Leupold Sako ringmounts don't even have a stud & work fine. Neither do any of the Redfield style drive on bases. BTW, there is no such thing as a vintage Sako "base". Opti-lok bases, which I assume you are referring to, are a recent offering from Beretta &, IIRC, the stud can be driven out. There is no reason to grind Redfield bases, as they have nothing to grind off.

 

[icebear]

PS. I did a search here for "favorite oils" thinking this would be a vastly explored topic; but nothing came up. Can someone point me to a thread talking about oils and which ones we Sako tenders (I don't say owners because we are just passing through and our Sakos will likely see many "tenders" over the years... but that's another topic altogether) like best. Thanks!

I use Break Free CLP for almost everything, including coating the barrel after cleaning.

 

[Texas Chinook]

BTW, there is no such thing as a vintage Sako "base".

Sorry, should I have said vintage Sako rings? That's what I'm showing in my first picture and the focus of my interest now...

 

[Texas Chinook]

I use Break Free CLP for almost everything, including coating the barrel after cleaning.

Thanks! When you mean "everything", are you including cleaning the bore? I was only asking about surface oils but wanted to clarify this.

BTW, years ago I inherited a chamois that had been impregnated over the years with a "secret" formula and was so soft and had such a wonderful aroma. I've added a few oils to it since acquiring it (not knowing what the secret formula was) and it's my "go to" cleanup rag... Maybe I'll add some Break Free CLP to it...

 

[icebear]

I wouldn't mix Break Free with whatever is in your chamois. Break Free isn't really an oil at all - it's Teflon and some other stuff suspended in a solvent mixture. You have to shake it up before you apply it. It was developed originally for the military to use on automatic weapons, which generate enormous amounts of heat. Petroleum based lubricants tend to break down or migrate out under those conditions, but Break Free is very heat resistant. It doesn't form a gummy film like a lot of old fashioned oils (don't EVER use 3-in-1 on a firearm).

I don't use Break Free as a bore cleaner. I've got several different bottles of bore cleaner around for different applications - regular sporting rifles, semiautos, old military rifles, corrosive ammo, rimfire, etc. Figuring out which to use on what is kind of a black art. Break Free CLP stands for Clean, Lubricate, Protect There's also an LP version that leaves out the cleaning agent. I like the cleaning properties just for wiping up around the action, but it doesn't substitute for a real bore cleaner. I do generally run a patch dampened with CLP down the bore after I've cleaned it. It has anti-rust properties.

 

[Texas Chinook]

Icebear, Amazon has a number of listings for Breakfree CLP, CLP-4, CLP-5... trigger sprayers, aerosols... Is the BreakFree BF-CLP4 CLP liquid 4 oz. what you use. Thanks

 

[icebear]

Icebear, Amazon has a number of listings for Breakfree CLP, CLP-4, CLP-5... trigger sprayers, aerosols... Is the BreakFree BF-CLP4 CLP liquid 4 oz. what you use. Thanks

Sorry, I haven't got the slightest idea about all the alphabet soup on Amazon. I buy a 4 oz bottle of Break Free CLP every couple of years at a gun show. I don't know what 4, 5, or whatever means - see if you can figure it out from the description, or go to the Break Free website. I do have a spray can of the stuff, which I mostly use for non-gun applications like gate hinges.

 

[icebear]

Here's one more Sako scope ring tool, in addition to the ones I've already posted. To borrow a phrase from the Vegematic - This is not available in any stores - because I made it myself, and if you want one, you'll have to make it too.

This is the tool for the windage adjustment nut on an old-style Sako ring. Normally you don't need a tool for this nut. It's knurled for finger operation, and you set this nut and then tighten the large nut on the other side. However, sometimes the nut gets gummed up, or frozen with rust, or the threads on the ring are buggered, or whatever and you need a tool to free it up. I made this tool out of a gunsmith's screwdriver. It works perfectly. The donor tool was either a Grace screwdriver or, more likely, a cheap clone of a Grace screwdriver. Note that it has a parallel ground blade, not the taper ground blade of a hardware store screwdriver. You could do the same thing to a Brownell's interchangeable tip. I did this with a Dremel tool and a couple of Swiss files. It was easy but time consuming to get it just right. You need to get the opening wide enough to get around the stud and deep enough to drive the nut all the way home if necessary. The pictures should show you what to do.

I'm also posting this with my original guide to Sako scope mounting tools.

 

[South Pender]

Icebear, what do you think of these two screwdriver bits, available from Brownells.

The first is the Weaver clamp screw bit:

the second, the Ruger clamp screw bit:

(Sorry for the oversized images and excessive spacing around them. For some reason, Imgur wouldn't let me resize them.)

Do you have either of these? Do you think either would work on the windage-adjustment screws? I guess the critical dimensions are (a) the width of the gap (i.e., not being so wide that there's nothing left around it to engage the screws) and (b) the thickness of the blade (not being too thick to fit into the slot of the screw heads). Actually, as I stare at these, I'm guessing that the blades, in both cases, are too thick.

After posting this, I went back and looked at your earlier "proper tools" thread and realize that you mentioned the Weaver bit. But was that only for the large thumb screw?

 

[icebear]

That is correct, the Weaver bit fits the large thumb nut but not the small nut on the opposite side. I'm sure that somewhere in the world of small precision tools there is a spanner of some kind that will fit the Sako windage nut, but I don't know where to find it and it took me less time and effort to just make my own than to look all over Hell and creation to find something that would do the same thing.

As for the Ruger bit, it is irrelevant to Sako. I own one because I have a Ruger Number 1 and a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle, but it has no Sako application. As far as I know, it has no use outside of its intended use for Ruger rings.