What Sako Caliber is Least in Demand?

[gowyo]

Short, squatty, not made for long distance running…obviously a grumpy dwarf.

 

[sierrajb]

Question by stonecreek:
We all know about the premium that scarce Sako calibers like .218 Bee or .300 H&H bring. But I'm looking for opinions on which caliber is the least valued? By this, I don't mean useful, because many common calibers are great hunting rounds -- the .30-06 for example -- but there are so many of them that they cause no excitement among Sako enthusiasts simply because they are fairly easily found and "everybody has one". Of course, a Sako in the most common of calibers may be NIB and have gorgeous wood, which will cause it to bring a big premium, but I'm speaking in terms of the value (or lack thereof) that the chambering alone creates.

So, which round is it that is least likely to bring a premium simply due to its chambering? I have my opinion, but I'll keep it to myself until others have had an opportunity to comment.
__________________________________________________________________________________

My two cents worth:
In my humble opinion- the least valued caliber question cannot be answered except from the individual perception of the owner. Depending on the needs of collectors of rare models or calibers the broad spectrum of choices would be so varied that no one caliber would fill the bill for least valued. As far as utility for hunting, there is no such thing as a least valued caliber because any caliber would fit the needs of someone some where on this planet as shown by the varied popularity of the members of the website. At the present time the shortage of ammo in our country is definitely causing some calibers to be nearly obsolete unless the owner has a stash of brass and powder for reloading. So, in my humble opinion the answer to this question is dependent on the ever changing conditions of availability (or cost) of ammo in any given area. Sakojim.

Well, thank you, Sakojim, for this encouraging post. As I mentioned in my first post as a newbie here (See "Rookie in Texas"), I just purchased my very first Sako in 243 Win (mannlicher/fullwood), and this thread has made me wonder if I blew it by buying a 243. Here in Texas it's a deadly caliber for deer, hogs, and varmints, yet soft enough recoil for the wife and/or daughter. No big regrets, but it was a bit deflating to read how many on this forum feel the 243 is one of the least desired in the Sako family. Your post, however, has made me feel better about my hasty purchase. Thanks for your perspective!

 

[clovis]

You did not make any mistake Sierrajb. You bought a quality rifle. The desirability for collectors, based on rarity of the caliber, should not detract from what seems to best fit your family's needs. Start looking for your next one as your wife and daughter may want their own.

 

[gunner620]

sierrab don't feel cheated in any way with a 243. I have 3 sporters and I am not disappointed with any of them, You have a quality rifle that fits your needs, what can be better than that.

 

[icebear]

sierrajb:

Just to add my own view to what's already been said - nobody is knocking the .243 cartridge or a .243 Sako rifle. It is what it is, it does what it does, and it does it pretty well. The only discussion revolves around the question of supply and demand, and the simple fact that Sako cranked out vast quantities of .243's when the caliber was super popular, which also coincides with the period when the Sakos most of us collect were made. They are "less desirable" to a collector because they are common, and many collectors seek the unusual.

And as for the .243 Mannlicher, any Mannlicher-style Sako is desirable and collectible. Most of them shoot very well. Many years ago I had an L579 in .243 that was a consistent sub-MOA shooter. I sold it because I needed the money for something else, but I'd have kept it otherwise. Your AII Mannlicher will likely draw more than a few comments along the lines of "Nice gun - wish I had one like that."

 

[Bucktote]

[QUOT Hi sierrajb, post: 103924, member: 15874"]Well, thank you, Sakojim, for this encouraging post. As I mentioned in my first post as a newbie here (See "Rookie in Texas"), I just purchased my very first Sako in 243 Win (mannlicher/fullwood), and this thread has made me wonder if I blew it by buying a 243. Here in Texas it's a deadly caliber for deer, hogs, and varmints, yet soft enough recoil for the wife and/or daughter. No big regrets, but it was a bit deflating to read how many on this forum feel the 243 is one of the least desired in the Sako family. Your post, however, has made me feel better about my hasty purchase. Thanks for your perspective![/QUOTE]
Hi Sierrajb,
Like Gunner & clovis I own .243s & for my use it is all I need. As clovis said , that cal. was produced in great numbers due to its popularity. Collectors deem a rifle important by its rarity, not by its popularity, versality or performance. You have one of the best rifles ever made! Enjoy, B/T

 

[bigcountry4me]

The only discussion revolves around the question of supply and demand, and the simple fact that Sako cranked out vast quantities of .243's when the caliber was super popular, which also coincides with the period when the Sakos most of us collect were made. They are "less desirable" to a collector because they are common, and many collectors seek the unusual.

Well done icebear !!

 

[stonecreek]

The Sako Mannlichers may have an entirely different set of more vs. less desirable calibers (at least in terms of market demand). I'd say the very most desired is the .308. That is because it uses a medium action (helpful to the compactness of a carbine) and performs well in the shorter barrels of carbines. The .243 may lag a bit behind the .308 in demand in a Mannlicher, but I would say that the .243 runs ahead of the .22-250 since the Mannlicher form and what is primarily a varmint cartridge are not really a good match.

By the same token, long action Mannlichers (L61R/AIII) don't float my boat so much because -- just the opposite of the .308 -- most long action cartridges do better with rifle-length barrels and the long action makes for a less compact Mannlicher carbine.

Of course, not all Sako Mannlichers are carbines -- which opens an entirely different discussion (that is meaty enough for its own thread) regarding the value of a rifle-length full stock vs. a carbine length full stock.

 

[CVCOBRA1]

Don't feel slighted with your 243 Manni. Just because of the "less desirable" thread on here. You have a great Sako rifle and should be very proud of it.

 

[icebear]

The Sako Mannlichers may have an entirely different set of more vs. less desirable calibers (at least in terms of market demand). I'd say the very most desired is the .308. That is because it uses a medium action (helpful to the compactness of a carbine) and performs well in the shorter barrels of carbines. The .243 may lag a bit behind the .308 in demand in a Mannlicher, but I would say that the .243 runs ahead of the .22-250 since the Mannlicher form and what is primarily a varmint cartridge are not really a good match.

Agree 100%. I have very few regrets about guns I have sold, but one I regret selling is a Sako L579 Mannlicher carbine in .308. It was kind of beat up, and a buddy of mine really, really wanted it, so I sold it to him for what I had in it. I've since acquired an H&R-Sako Mannlicher carbine in .308, and it's actually a better gun (Sako barreled action with a much nicer stock), but I still sort of have my eye open for another like the one I sold. And to add to the .243 vs. .22-250 discussion, the latter really requires a much longer barrel to do what it was designed to do. Short action cartridges go with short barrels. Other calibers that would go well in a medium action Sako carbine would include .260 Remington, 7mm-08, and especially the .358 Winchester.

By the same token, long action Mannlichers (L61R/AIII) don't float my boat so much because -- just the opposite of the .308 -- most long action cartridges do better with rifle-length barrels and the long action makes for a less compact Mannlicher carbine.

Absolutely! For some reason Sako sold many more long action and magnum Mannlicher carbines than short and medium cartridges, even though the latter are better suited to a short barreled, lightweight carbine. There are more A-series carbines out there in .30-06 and .270 than any of the shorter cartridges, and a surprising number of carbines are chambered in 7mm RM and .338 WM. The chief advantage of the larger calibers is that they generate so much muzzle flash from unburnt powder blowing out the muzzle that you can kill your deer and barbecue it with one shot. The solution is to handload with a smaller charge of faster burning powder compared to factory loads - but why not just get a .308 in the first place? I have an AIII in .30-06. With a handload of 3031 pushing a 150-grain bullet, it shoots groups under half an inch - but it's still not the most elegant solution for a short, light hunting rifle. I believe that Sako calculated, correctly, that American customers would buy long-action Mannlicher carbines because those were the calibers they were used to and habit triumphs over all.

Of course, not all Sako Mannlichers are carbines -- which opens an entirely different discussion (that is meaty enough for its own thread) regarding the value of a rifle-length full stock vs. a carbine length full stock.

Bring it on!

 

[bloorooster]

Bring it on!

…not to mention that Sako also released some Heavy Barrel Mannlichers too!

 

[stonecreek]

…not to mention that Sako also released some Heavy Barrel Mannlichers too!

The only HB Sako Mannlicher I'm aware of is a very small special run made for and distributed by Gander Mountain. Were there others?

Of course, the A-series had somewhat heavier barrels than the early L-series, but not varmint-target weight like the Gander Mountain version. And then there were the near-mythical handful of Deluxe Mannlichers.

But we digress (which is part of the fun of these discussions.)

 

[bloorooster]

The only HB Sako Mannlicher I'm aware of is a very small special run made for and distributed by Gander Mountain. Were there others?

Of course, the A-series had somewhat heavier barrels than the early L-series, but not varmint-target weight like the Gander Mountain version. And then there were the near-mythical handful of Deluxe Mannlichers.

But we digress (which is part of the fun of these discussions.)

Where’s the “Goose” at? I could be wrong but I’m thinking he has one…
I wasn’t aware of the Gander Mt. order … but recall seeing one listed long ago in an estate auction.

bloo

 

[Clayton]

My opinion -.270, and here’s my order.
1. L61R Bofors, because of the obvious.
2. AV Hunter because of the stock design.
3. 75 bolt design etc.
4. AIII the high comb is kinda detracting.

Hi, I new to sakos and the forum, looking to learn. Re: above- L61R Bofors, because of the obvious. What is the obvious for those like me who are new? Curious. Thanks!

 

[bigcountry4me]

Hi, I new to sakos and the forum, looking to learn. Re: above- L61R Bofors, because of the obvious. What is the obvious for those like me who are new? Curious. Thanks!

Welcome to the community.

The early Bofors stamped barrel brings with it a certain mystique and typically are slightly more collectible, if the condition is very high or excellent. Later unstamped barrels probably perform equally as well.

These rifles are slimmer and trimmer than the later L61’s. Checkering is hand cut, double bordered , grip caps typically have a spacer and black cap. Sling mounts are fixed loops, rather than studs. Most would agree the early refinements were Sako’s finest efforts.

If you search for pictures of early Bofors rifles you’ll see the subtle differences. Just remember this was only my humble opinion . Others may feel differently. Thanks.

 

[bloorooster]

Hi, I new to sakos and the forum, looking to learn. Re: above- L61R Bofors, because of the obvious. What is the obvious for those like me who are new? Curious. Thanks!

Welcome Clayton
The term Bofors , in Big Country’s statement , is referring to a period of time. The rifles that Sako produced from 1950’s thru 1967 or so, had barrels made of Swedish Steel or Bofors Steel. There was a stamping used during this period, on the right side of the barrel ahead of the receiver. These barrels are of a lighter taper or contour. The rifles of this period were a bit lighter and quicker to handle. After 1968-69 the barrel tapers became heavier , as did the stock dimensions. I think Bofors Steel was still used into the 70’s
The Bofors stamped guns are kinda like the “Cream of the Crop”

Enjoy the knowledge that you can find here. Shoot safe and true!

bloo

 

[Clayton]

Welcome to the community.

The early Bofors stamped barrel brings with it a certain mystique and typically are slightly more collectible, if the condition is very high or excellent. Later unstamped barrels probably perform equally as well.

These rifles are slimmer and trimmer than the later L61’s. Checkering is hand cut, double bordered , grip caps typically have a spacer and black cap. Sling mounts are fixed loops, rather than studs. Most would agree the early refinements were Sako’s finest efforts.

If you search for pictures of early Bofors rifles you’ll see the subtle differences. Just remember this was only my humble opinion . Others may feel differently. Thanks.

 

[Clayton]

Thank you! And apologies for the cellphone grammar.

 

[Murkula]

So, which round is it that is least likely to bring a premium simply due to its chambering?

I'd say 7mm RM (despite being an excellent long range cartridge) - nowhere near as popular as it once was and there are so many older Sakos available in this caliber that the supply far exceeds demand.

 

[icebear]

apologies for the cellphone grammar.

There's a lot of that going around. Good on you for self-awareness!