What should be called a "Mannlicher"?

Discussion in 'General Sako Discussions' started by stonecreek, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Just a footnote to the full stock/ full wood/ Mannlicher discussion: Although once very popular in Europe, the full wood carbine or rifle has fallen out of favor with European hunters due to the current belief that they are less accurate than half-stock rifles. I've had friends from Europe hunt with me and when I offered them a Sako Mannlicher they were hesitant about its accuracy. Those misgivings were dispelled when they tried it from the bench and put the first round square through the center of the bull at 200 yards.


    I'll admit that I'd never build a dedicated bench rifle with a Mannlicher stock, but the Sako Mannlichers I own shoot right along with their sporter counterparts.
     
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  2. Sean Hodges

    Sean Hodges Well-Known Member

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    So if there’s any of our European friends out there needing to part ways with a Sako full stock, please send it my way.....Address to follow.... I’m kidding of course....
     
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  3. XTrooper

    XTrooper Well-Known Member

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    I've had equally good success with mine, stonecreek. My Bavarian Carbine will routinely shoot sub-moa groups and I see no difference in its shooting performance in comparison to any of my other accurate rifles.
     
  4. XTrooper

    XTrooper Well-Known Member

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    Well, I proved myself wrong regarding Sako advertising. As you can see below in this 1962 Sako magazine ad, they did indeed advertise their full stock carbines as Mannlichers, at least in 1962 they did. You learn something new every day! :)
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

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    All three of my full-stock Sako carbines will shoot 100-yard groups well under an inch with the right ammo. The longer full-stock rifles don't shoot as well but accuracy is sufficient that I would not hesitate to hunt with them. That's likely because the longer stock and barrel mean more leverage for any irregularity in wood to metal fit. My recently acquired L461 Mannlicher-style long rifle improved a lot when I took it out of the stock and took a little wood out here and there to eliminate any chance of lateral pressure on the barrel. Also you may have to play with the tension on the barrel band - too much or too little can affect accuracy. And I've found that both the rifles and the carbines are very fussy about ammo. Forget Remington, whose .222 and .222 Magnum ammo is the most commonly seen at retail and at gunshows. That stuff is for plinking and for getting a rough zero on a scope. Lapua, Sako, Nosler, and handloads have done the best for me.

    The L579 in .308 is the least accurate of my full-stocked long rifles. I've never gotten it to shoot better than an inch and a half and mostly it shoots about two inches. However, I've never done a full-court press on it with trying different brands of ammo, bullet weights, handloads, and tuning the barrel band, so maybe someday when I have the time. Of course, the fact that I got it from a Montana rancher who carried it in a saddle scabbard may also have something to do with it. It's had a hard life, but it's still a rare treasure.
     
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  6. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    I'll agree that it should be more difficult, at least in theory, to get good accuracy from a long-barreled full stock rifle.

    I have only one Sako Mannlicher long barrel, an L46 .222. I wasn't going to buy it since I had way too many .222's already, but I was invited to put a scope on it and try it at the bench. WOW! It shot cloverleafs with some generic handloads that I keep on hand to feed any .222 for which I don't have a specially tailored load. I never took the scope off and just handed the owner the money.
     
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  7. douglastwo

    douglastwo Well-Known Member

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    Great topic ! Made me thumb through some of my FI catalogs from 1950 to 1961 to see what style Mannlicher (Carbine or long barrel), Sako was offering. Here's what a quick review revealed.
    1. Photos in 1950 through 1957 catalogs show the L46 as a long barrel Mannlicher rifle and the text refers to it as a Mannlicher. No mention is made of a Carbine model, and no short barrel specs are listed as available for the Mannlicher. None of the catalogs refer to the short action Sakos as a Vixen.
    L46 Sako Catalog for 1951. 52.jpg
    2. The 1958 Price List with the inserts showing the newly introduced L57 as available in HB and Sporter, but the insert makes no mention of a L57 Mannlicher being available.
    3. Do not have a 1958 or 59 catalog.
    4. My 1960 catalog is the earliest that has photos showing the short barrel carbine Mannlicher for the L46 and L57. But the catalog description refers to both rifles as a Mannlicher and makes no mention of Carbine.
    5. My 1961 catalog has photos of the L46 and L57 showing them with the long barrel and makes no mention of Carbine.

    I hope the above doesn't confuse you as much as it does me. It gave me a headache.
     
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  8. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

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    Was there any mention in the later catalogs of the L469 or the .222 Magnum caliber? If so, which configurations?
     
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  9. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Interesting old ad! Thanks for posting it, douglastwo.

    I'd point out that this ad copy is from Firearms International and not from Sako. That is obvious when you closely read it. For example, the FI ad mentions "Finnish Steel", whereas Sako promoted its "Swedish Steel" (Bofors). Also, the ad references "the icy tundras of Lapland and Finland" as if "Lapland" was a country and not simply an arctic region which stretches across parts of Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Russia. No one from Sako would use the term this way (and today the terms "Lapland", "Lapps", and "Laplander" have fallen out of use in favor of more accurate terms for the region and its indigenous inhabitants.)

    But it is clear that Firearms International was using the term "Mannlicher" for Sako's full stock rifles, regardless of barrel length, just as Sako apparently was.
     
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  10. XTrooper

    XTrooper Well-Known Member

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    Here is a photo of the page in my copy of Gun Digest 1966 relating to some of the Sako rifles available that year. As you can see, although the L469 isn’t mentioned, the .222 Magnum is. Hope this helps.
    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  11. douglastwo

    douglastwo Well-Known Member

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    Icebear, the quick answer is YES. But I'll take a shot at describing what the FI Catalogs and PL say....but if I get another headache, you'll owe me a beer!

    I have one FI catalog for January 1961. It came with a FI price list that is dated 1961 (with no month noted on the PL, but I assume it is a January PL). The photos and written description for the Sporter, HB and Mannlicher show them with the L46 action.

    Three other FI price list came with the January 1961 catalog. One was dated February 1961, the second PL was dated April 1961, and the third was dated August 1961. All three of these price lists show the rifles (Sporter, HB and Mannlicher) to have the L469 action. All three PL also show the barreled action and the action only to also be L469.

    My Mid-Year 1962 FI catalog and PL show all three configurations to have the L461 action.

    Hope this is the news you were looking for. And, I didn't get a headache.
     
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