Short Actions What makes the L461 action special?

Discussion in 'Sako Short Actions' started by Humble308, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. kirkbridgershooters

    kirkbridgershooters Well-Known Member

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    Holy Crap Rick, things are certain to get better. If it makes you feel any better, that sounds like a normal morning for me, just to get out of bed...

     

  2. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking of the older action. If I remember correctly, my Walther was also a single lug action. I have not examined the newer, 6-lug Anschutz action, but it sounds like that was designed for center-fire use.
     
  3. Humble308

    Humble308 Member

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    If you're interested here's a link to probably one of the better reviews I've found for the Anschutz 1771.
    https://calibremag.ca/best-hunting-rifle-you-didnt-know-existed-anschutz-1771/

    Much of my research has suggested to stay away from older Anschutz rifles due to the the single rear lug design, but I can't deny that after handling the 1771 in a few different shops that the 20" threaded swingable barrell, shnabel forend, myriad of scope mounting options, and 6 locking locks suitable for center fire cartridges has me drawn in. The rifle handles extremely well and would make for a splendid rifle for walking my revier. I haven't been able to handle a L461 as of yet. Due to the extremely limited reviews of the 1771, it's been tough to find a comparison between the two rifles. I'm just not sure if it's worth twice the price, when something like the L461 exists. All the best.
     
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  4. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting. I checked out the review; some good info there. Like you, I have doubts about spending two grand on the Anschutz, although the six-lug bolt is an intriguing (and likely very strong) design and Anschutz is using some very pretty wood, which does add to the price (and value, if you go in for fancy wood, which I do). I could do without the schnabel. I've always thought the schnabel was kind of silly-looking; I much prefer a classic fore-end. That said, I own a couple of guns with the schnabel feature that I wanted for other reasons. At least they've gotten rid of the blond wood and skip-line checkering. The current stocks, with dark, figured wood and fine-line straight checkering, are much more attractive than most of the older ones.
     
  5. Humble308

    Humble308 Member

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    Haha, I love the schnabel, I get tired of boring ebony tipped forends...different strokes as the saying goes. I'm a sucker for pretty wood but most of the 1771's I've checked out in shops have been less than impressive and rather plain. Maybe one day I'll try one in 17 hornet if I can't get it out of my mind.

    For now, I'll see about nabbing this Sako. I was going to opt for the Leupold steel ring mounts...I'm planning for a 44mm or 50mm objective, would the highs be too much? I'm curious why Sako chose this tapered dovetail rail...does it offer any inherent advantages to scope mounting?
     
  6. Wayne

    Wayne Member

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    Since stonecreek noted that the virtual twin to a L461 is an A1, I followed your link and clicked on search at the top then clicked on hunting rifles on the next page. It is near the bottom of page 5 of 6. The ad topic says A1 A1 1000 Euro. I am not a member so I can not see the details of this gun. Hope this is enough info to help. Wayne
     
  7. Humble308

    Humble308 Member

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    Ah I see, I never ended up finding it, perhaps the auction ended already.

    I appreciate all the help guys, I won the L461 auction tonight for a measly $598 euro! I'll update once the gun arrives. One of the interesting things about German weapons law is that once you have your hunting license, you can send and receive weapons directly through the mail. The hunting licensing course does take about a year for German nationals, fortunately the US forces have an abbreviated program (4 months). I guess in the German governments eyes, once you have your Jagdshein, then you're a trust worthy person. :). All the best!

    Derek

    P.S. - Does anyone's 461 have some favorite factory ammo or bullet weights? I was thinking of sticking with 50 grain SP's as a general purpose varmint bullet...might be interested in trying the TTSX for roe deer. Reloading is off the table for now as it requires another license and we won't be here long enough to justify the cost the course. These Germans sure love their licenses.
     
  8. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    I'm not sure about the ammunition available in Germany, but plain old Remington, Winchester, or Federal ammunition with a regular cup-and-core bullet has taken thousands of Texas whitetails. Roe deer are about 2/3rds the size of a whitetail, so I'd be confident to hunt them with your .222. However, at one time I understand that Germany had a minimum energy requirement for Roe which exceeded that of the .222 family. Are you certain that the .222 is legal for roe in Germany?
     
  9. Humble308

    Humble308 Member

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    Correct, roe deer is what is called niderwild (low game) and other cloven hoove animals such as boar, reds, sika, fallow etc.. are called hochwild (high game). High Game has a caliber minimum of 6.5mm and 2,000 Joules @ 100m, while low game (mostly just specific for roe) has no caliber minimum but requires 1,000 Joules @ 100m. Lots of Germans seem to favor the little 222 for roe deer, the European ammo seems to be loaded a little hotter as well. A friend of mine uses a .223 Rem for heart shooting roe deer within a reasonable range. Our roe deer season won't start till May and runs several months before red's open up, but right now we're in prime fox season. That's where this rifle will really shine and on crows that they seem to have a problem with on our revier. I may try to snag a roe deer with the 222, but my main rifle for deer is a Blaser R8 6.5x55 SE that has been wonderful so far. I may grab a 9.3x62mm barrel later down the line for some added insurance on drive hunts...the wild boar here are tanks.

    Actually if any of you guys are into hunting, we just launched a website for our rod and gun club over here. Here's link to my Gams (Chamois) hunt in the German Alps. Having the opportunity to hunt over here has been awesome. Not to mention, as a gunsmith, Germany is like the promised land for cool gun designs...I'll have a post a picture of my drilling sometime

    https://www.bavariansportsmansclub.com/post/an-alpine-adventure-pursuing-mountain-gams
     
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  10. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Factory loads for the .222 should retain about 1100 joules at 100 meters, so it appears to qualify. However, I'm surprised that the .25-06 and .257 Weatherby are not legal for fallow deer by .007" or .18mm!
     
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  11. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

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    You have to draw a line somewhere, and the .257 caliber is not exactly a household word in Europe, while 6.5 mm is popular and a nice round number in the metric system. 6.5mm is as reasonable a place to draw that line as any, unless you're one of the three hard-core .25-06 fans on the European continent.
     
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  12. Humble308

    Humble308 Member

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    I agree SC, I think people would do very well with the .25-06 or even the old .257 Roberts (hell the case is based on the 7x57!) Not many people shoot the Swede here either, but there's something nostalgic about it for me. .30-06 is by far the most popular cartridge here followed by the .308 and 300 WM. The 8x57 holds some sway for the older hunters and I'm personally a big fan. The 7x64 Brenneke has outstripped the 7x57 in popularity over here, from what I understand it mimics .280 Rem ballistics. They don't typically purchase as many rifles as we do, so most often it's one of those rounds and they tend to shoot everything from fox to red stag with one cartridge. But here I am getting carried away on my favorite topic of rifle cartridges.

    Grabbed some Hornady and RWS soft points today and we'll see how they work once the rifle gets here. Now to get some Leupy 30mm ring mounts ordered, to bad they won't ship to APOs. All the best yall
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  13. dgeesaman

    dgeesaman Well-Known Member

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    I can’t wax poetically about the L461 action other than I own two and they seem very good.

    I will say that if you like to shoot in any volume, I understand the 177* and 178* series have the lugs cut into the barrel not the receiver. So it’s basically impossible to replace the barrel. I like to shoot regularly so I will probably never own one, even with a barrel-friendly cartridge like .222 Remington.
     
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  14. Humble308

    Humble308 Member

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    Thanks very much for this information. Cutting lug recesses into the barrel seems pretty odd and makes you a slave their repair department. I reckon I'll just stay away from these actions for now. All the best!
     
  15. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it's the other way around; the 7x64mm Brenneke was introduced in 1917. As you note, ballistics are for all practical purposes identical to a .280, or for that matter a .270, which appeared in 1925. The difference in bore is only .007". The Europeans tend to load the 7mm with heavier bullets than Americans; factory loads in 7x64 are available up to 173 grains and my German custom rifle in that caliber will only shoot the 173's accurately - it's all over the place with 144 grain Norma ammo. I don't know the barrel twist but it's obviously faster than you would see on a .280.
     
  16. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it's quite common on modern semiautomatic rifles for the bolt to lock into the barrel, as it reduces stress on the receiver. The AR-15 and AK-47 both use this system. On an AR, you don't even have to re-headspace a replacement barrel. Any properly machined bolt will headspace on any properly machined barrel. I believe this is also the case with the switch-barrel Sauer 200/202 sporting rifles.

    The reduced stress on the receiver would account for the relatively slender receiver on the Anschutz compared to a Sako or a Mauser-type action.

    In practical terms, the difference is that the Anschutz doesn't have dozens of aftermarket barrels available like the AR, and you can't swap out the barrel with hand tools, as is also the case with the AR.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  17. Humble308

    Humble308 Member

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    Ice, I'm not sure what you mean by it's the other way around? I can only speak to the hunting/shooting I've done here in Germany and surrounding countries that the 7x64 is a far more popular cartridge than the 7x57 with far more ammunition choices available. I'd love to see any pictures of your German custom.

    You nailed with the AR/AK reference, it wasn't something that I even thought about, I reckon my mind was more focused around bolt guns. Great point about the slender receiver size on the Anschutz. I haven't worked on Anschutz rifles so I'm not sure how easily the barrel is removed from the receiver, from my understanding they're pressed and soldered on at least this model. I have relined a couple barrels and re barreled more than a few on threaded receivers including Mausers. Unless your shop is equipped to deal with the Annie barrels I don't know that it's any easier or cheaper than a threaded action. You'd have to melt of the solder, press or pound the barrel out, re line, rechamber...sure the liner is cheap but I'd just as well send it back to Anschutz and let them deal with it haha. There is a rifle manufacturer here called Heym that you might find interesting. Heym makes a model called the SR30 which is their straight pull model and the bolt actually contains ball bearing locking lugs. In full engagement the bearings fit into recesses like other lugs but when the rifle is cycled the bearings drop into the bolt body for unlocking. Pretty cool stuff for sure. All the best.
     
  18. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

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    The reference was to the comment that the 7x64 "mimics .280 ballistics." Since the 7x64 came first, it's the .280 that mimics 7x64 ballistics, not the 7x64 mimics the .280. My comment had nothing to do with the 7x57.

    The straight-pull Heym action sounds somewhat similar to the roller-locked action of the G3/HK91 military automatic and semiautomatic rifles, and their sporting variants.
     
  19. Humble308

    Humble308 Member

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    Oh yea absolutely
     

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