What if we could setup an Import Dealer

Discussion in 'Sako Short Actions' started by ricksengines, Apr 13, 2016.

  1. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    Alright, don't shoot the messenger! That said, it seems to me that it just might sense to setup an Import Dealer(s) for the members of our SAKO Collectors Club. My vision would be to have an FFL(s) here that could bring rifles in from Finland, Australia etc. that one of our membership purchased at auction or privately and transfer it to the person's local FFl or do a direct transfer. Seems to me that such an arrangement might turn a few bucks for the dealer(s) that would be willing to setup and provide such a service for our members. Perhaps this could be a subscriber service, where our members would pay a fee to be able to use the service. Anyone wanting in on the deal would have to signup and pay the fee to play.

    As always your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


    rick
     

  2. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Dreams are a deluding influence on reality. The infinitesimally small amount of people that would use this "service" wouldn't even come close to justifying the expense & hassle associated with providing it. The cost of an importer's license alone would be impossible to recover without a large volume. Today's laws & paper work for the international arms trade would be too prohibitive to make it practical when dealing with multiple countries. Nice thought, though.
     
  3. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    Anyone else got a bucket of water they would like to throw on this idea? I would really like to know what the cost would be for an FFL here to import a rifle from Australia. Ditto for Finland. Anyone out there know what the costs/impediments would be? How much would those charges add to the cost of purchasing a rifle from someone down under and getting it imported into the U.S. and transferred to the purchaser here. Any of our learned scholars know? Mind you I am just asking not poopooing Paul's comments.
     
  4. enotstehw

    enotstehw Banned

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    I purchased a gun from an importer three years ago . . . and I could ask him . . . if he is still in the business.
    And I've sold two guns to a fellow Sako collector in Australia several years ago. And he claims he can make money selling imports in Australia. I would imagine you have gun importers living in Florida?
     
  5. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    Any chance you might remember how much the import added to the cost of the piece?
     
  6. enotstehw

    enotstehw Banned

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    He publicly advertised the gun for sale at a given price. I did not ask him about the import expense, because I learned about the history of the gun after I said I would take it.
    And the Sako collector in Australia shipped 60 Sakos at one time from the USA to Australia . . . the guns sat at import office for more than three months in Australia, if my memory serves me correctly.
     
  7. Sexton

    Sexton Well-Known Member

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    Something else to consider, every gun that comes into the US has to have the importers name and some form of address applied to it in a permanent manner, be it stamped , engraved, or by some other method. Some importers have nice discreet marking techniques, others, not so much. That's fine for a 60 year old military surplus rifle that looks like it took a ride in a cement mixer, but who wants that on a fine sporter?
     
  8. dhv

    dhv Well-Known Member

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    Don't know about importing to the USA, but there is definitely a market for someone to facilitate the export of items purchased in the US to be sent to Oz.

    It's not always about cost, sometimes we just cant get locally what you guys have heaps of.
     
  9. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    I was thinking more in terms of our collectors getting access to 7 x 33, hornet and bee Sakos' that exist in greater numbers down under and on the other side of the pond where condition and price might be better. If it can't be done or isn't practical that is truly a loss all the way around.
     
  10. sakojim

    sakojim Well-Known Member

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    I sure am interested to learn more about this subject. If anyone can get a handle on it I am ready to fill a large part of the first shipment if the process is not too difficult to deal with. These old Sako treasures are worthy of a better future than what is forecast for gun ownership in the USA. Lets pursue the issue. Sakojim.
     
  11. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    Gotta find them first. But if that is going to be something that is viable we need a pathway for importing them before moving ahead.

    Anyone out there with sources for the import leg will hopefully add their two cents worth.

    rick
     
  12. L61R

    L61R SCC President Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    I shipped 17 rifles to Oz a while back.

    The cost was well over 3000USD not including the import costs, GST etc in Australia.

    Just to put some numbers on it.

    Jim
     
  13. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    Hi Jim

    Thanks for the input. Any chance you might know what it would cost to import a rifle from say Australia, Finland, Sweden, Germany or any other European source for some of these rare Sako rifles to the US. From your comment I take it that this was not your first import/export rodeo so can you add any value to this discussion by providing some ballpark costs for us to chew on?

    Thanks

    rick
     
  14. L61R

    L61R SCC President Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Rick, I've done it twice over the years. Both times to Oz.

    The second time I shipped two rifles and the export cost was approx. 1500USD, not counting the import costs.

    So it's cheaper per rifle to ship many.

    I have thought of setting up a gunshop but the costs are too high to make it a business. Especially for storing guns.
    It takes certain types of safes if a dealer wants to store over 20 rifles. If you want to store more than 40 rifles one would need an alarm system with acoustic sensors and such an alarm system would set you back at least 10-15k USD plus installation, monthly fee, service fees plus the cost for a safe (2-3kUSD).

    This is IF the authorities approves you as a dealer.

    As an individual, we can only own 6 guns in Sweden which makes it hard to deal with guns other than for just the fun of it. And if you trade to many rifles on any given year, Big Brother will be on your back.

    The cost for exporting out of Sweden is:

    Export license: 700SEK

    Delivery cost to the carrier. You have to factor in driving costs, time etc and for me it takes one day back and forth to the carrier. Say 1500SEK in my case not counting the time.
    You can have them pick up the shipment but due to new regulations they have to ship the bolts separate from the rifles so two cars is required.
    In my case that would cost a minimum of 4000SEK.

    A case to ship in: 50-200USD

    Actual shipping cost: 1000-1500USD as a minimum. For dealers with large safes, it might be cheaper to ship by sea but takes forever.

    I asked them last time about shipping to the US and it's roughly the same.

    You must also factor in costs for delays. Should the shipment be delayed for any reason, they charge you for waiting time and terminal costs.

    When it comes to import costs, I am only familiar with Oz where they charge a 10 percent GST plus other minor fees. Then comes the fees and markup of the importer. Shipping etc.

    Other countries have other figures but I don't know anything about that.

    A note here is that shipping costs varies a lot with currencies etc.

    And always stay clear of shipping guns via Singapore or you are in trouble. They have extremely strict policies for transiting guns and you don't want that hassle.

    So there you go.

    Jim
     
  15. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    Thanks Jim

    This was very informative. Also I wasn't proposing that I be the one to do something like this. I was hoping that we had or had access to a licensed person or business that might be able to do something like this on a onezee basis. From your information it sounds like it would just be way too expensive to do this if I or someone else in the group found a really fine collector Sako overseas and wanted to add it to their collection here in the US.

    Thanks again for taking the time to explain this to us.
     
  16. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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  17. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Any licensed FFL can import up to 50 guns per year without an importer's license. Each gun must be for a specific individual and not for resale. In other words, you can have a rifle imported through your local dealer without his having to have any additional license, but it must be a gun to deliver to you and you have to get a permit for that specific rifle from ATF by submitting a form containing its serial number, barrel length, caliber, etc. ATF is said to take about 6 weeks to process and approve this form.

    The problem for the dealer comes in clearing customs. He probably has to arrange for a bonded warehouse at the port of entry. This and other red tape and expense have to be overcome, but as far as getting permission to import through a regular FFL it is not a problem.

    There is also the red tape that the seller has to tangle with to export from his country. That can vary considerably, but as Jim pointed out in the case of Sweden, there's a lot of expense on that end.
     
  18. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    Hi Stone. So do they still have to be stamped with the ID of the FFL imprinted on the thing. Something like that would really degrade the collector value of these things.

    rick
     
  19. Hootsmon

    Hootsmon Well-Known Member

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    Rick,
    If you want to import firearms for your own personal use, you do not need to use a licensed importer. Any 01 FFL can do it for you (but most probably won't want to).

    From the BATFE FAQ page: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may...mporter’s-license-make-occasional-importation

    May a licensee who does not have an importer’s license make an occasional importation?
    Yes. A licensee may make an occasional importation of a firearm for a nonlicensee or for the licensee’s personal use (not for resale). The licensee must first submit an ATF Form 6, Part I to ATF for approval. The licensee may then present the approved ATF Form 6 and completed ATF Form 6A to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.


    The BEST part about using a standard FFL to import, is the firearm does not need to be import marked. Only licensed importers, who are importing for resale, need to comply with import marking requirements.
     
  20. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    That is great news indeed. So I'm guessing that you have to have purchased the rifle first and then put all of the pertinent info on the application to ATF. Then track the arrival to customs and go there to pick it up when it arrives.

    Or am I missing something?

    rick
     

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