Finnwolf VL63 VL 63 Magazines [3 round]: Proposed Manufacture Of 100... Or More ... 'Field-Grade' Finnwolf Mags Fo

Discussion in 'Sako Finnwolf VL63 lever actions' started by stevespencer, Apr 22, 2010.

  1. stevespencer

    stevespencer Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello, all.
    For me, I felt it best to be a Sako owner before joining the Club. In the weeks before even making
    moves to get a .308 Finnwolf, I resolved to locate, at least, one...'back-up' mag. Many days and hours
    later with no luck getting an extra mag, I went ahead with getting a Finnwolf, serial # 104XX.
    When my FFL pulled it from the shipping box, he said, "Gawd, it's not been fired". Indeed, the mag was
    pristine, w/o any of the scratches,rub marks that appeared on a Feb. '10 GunBrokers auctioned mag
    [$315, F.O.B.]! Now what to do, for an extra mag..or five.

    I knew I didn't need-or wish-to copy Sako's fine finish of the mag bottom side. Coming up with a
    field-grade mag for shooting, without damage to the rifle, would keep costs down, perhaps encouraging
    others to join my little project. I did have some questions to answer:
    1) Would a 3 round mag copy of a '73-'74 Finnwolf fit w/ease & be useable in an earlier made
    Finnwolf? This question I'd ask of you, the Club readers.
    2) Would Sako or the Feds or State enforcement folks care at all what I proposed doing? Am
    fairly sure Sako doesn't care, as long as I'm not coping an original mag for sale as an "original mag".
    My off-the-record chat with an enforcement-type retiree yielded a comment that "3 rd mags in a 35 yr +
    lever-action rifle, from Finland, wouldn't warrant time or scarce resources".


    With mag in hand, I made the rounds of local machinist shops. If made by a sheet metal
    stamping process, there'd 4 separate pieces to this box mag: the case; the bottom plate that is spot
    welded to the case; the 'leaf' spring; the plate that rides the spring, lifting the rounds. Though
    expensive, I found a shop doing high-end bicycle parts that can machine the case and bottom
    plate as one piece from a single block of steel. Or stainless steel or titanium! With a combined
    case/bottom plate; spring and the lifting plate...you're down to just three pieces. No real assembly
    issues in three pieces that fit together, but unattached or unwelded to each other.

    For you folks that are still reading this stuff...What are your thoughts?
    I'm in position to front machining start up costs. I don't wish to profit...and would really rather
    have someone else - a Finnwolf C.P.A- handle TRANSPARENTLY any monies. One thought of mine,
    is that although we club members are apart in miles, we could 'bundle' mag buying interest together...
    possibly having a minimum order....2 or 4 or 10? I'm in for five, or so. How about pledges to buy X
    number of mags? And if we get pledges reaching a 100 or 200 total...pull the trigger and go for it.
    As to cost per mag, what would you pay....will you buy 3, if they're $100 each..5, if they're $75
    each...10 mags, if they're $50? We need to gauge the combined interest.....

    Regards,
    stevespencer
     

  2. emmerth

    emmerth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    8
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Pennsylvania
    Steve,

    This sounds like a fun project and am interested. I would like to see a protype before I made a commitment on how many I would buy and at what price.. I have both the older 4 round and newere 3 round Finnwolfs but have never swapped the mags to see if they work. It looks like you already have the Sako bug [​IMG]

    Let me know what you intend to do.

    emmerth
     
  3. stevespencer

    stevespencer Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Emmerth,

    With positive feedback and some idea of numbers from Club members, I'd give the one shop the
    funds and my Finnwolf box mag case only. They'd scan the case, computers would write the program
    that'd make several exact copies of the mag case-in steel [stainless steel requires added steps, but
    very possible]. That program could make one or one thousand mag cases, with the per unit cost
    crashing as more are made. With a mag prototype copy in hand-shop folks can do the dark coating
    fairly easy-I'd put both my original spring and original 'lifting plate' in the prototype case, slip the hybrid
    mag into the .308 and shoot it.
    Again, as mentioned in my original post, I'd like to see if the hybrid case shoots in earlier
    Finnwolfs, with ease and without damage to those earlier made rifles. Another way to would be with
    scans of an older mag case or two. The computer program can detect case differences and advise us
    of differences between, say, a '65 case and my '73-74 case. We could even 'average' the scans of
    several original mags, from different years, and see if this composite case would have the
    tolerances to fit in all Finnwolfs. I'd suspect that case would fit fine.
    That prototype case would cost thousands of $$. But then a run or 100, 200 or more units drops
    the cost per unit--for the CASE- to, say, $ 30 ea. for 100, $15 ea. for 200, $10 ea. for 300......
    The cost of a sheet metal place stamping out 100s of springs and 'lifter plates' will be much, much
    less...down to 1-2 $$ per unit...or even less.
    This 'project' could offer the separate parts or the whole unit for sale.

    Regards,
    stevespencer
     
  4. misako50

    misako50 Sako-addicted

    Messages:
    3,088
    Likes Received:
    48
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Nebraska
    stevespenser- The 3 shot and the 4 shot do not interchange. There are a few differences in the two magazines but the main influence is related to the recoil lug-magazine latch mechanism being different in the two choices of rifles, (3 or 4 shot). There is a magazine repro being done at this time for the Winchester model 88. It is a 4 shot and can be modified to fit the 4 shot Finnwolf. It is not ideal but it does work and takes very little time to rework. I appreciate your plan and see that 100 mags would be a great start for the project. My ideal would be to have equal numbers of mags for both series rifles and be complete with bluing and polishing. Stainless and other exotic ideas can come later after a market is established. You could count on me for 2 spares if the cost is not much more than $75.00 each.- Regards, Misako
     
  5. Spitfire

    Spitfire Member

    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Country Flag:
    Norway
    Hi,
    I am also interested, in one or two 3 round Finnwolf mags, as long as they do not cost more than $100 or thereabout.
    Great initiative! Best regards from Kristoffer
     
  6. stevespencer

    stevespencer Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Misako,
    Thank you, for your time and input.
    Consider your request done: we'll seek 'pledges' for 100 units of a 4 round magazine, along
    with 100 units of the 3 round mag. Now if I could figure how to change the title of this
    discussion to " VL 63 magazines [ 3 and 4 round]..." , we might get more readers and their
    comments.
    Should there be enough pledges to proceed on manufacture of a 4 round mag, I'd need
    either: 1) A 4 round mag to get the drawings of...for the prototype [ no damage or even
    markings to be made on original mag]..... OR
    2) I'd locate a professional person or company NEARBY an owner of a 4 round
    mag, who could take-in person[ my personal choice..]-that mag to that professional and
    witness the drawings being made of their original mag, for making 4 rd prototype.
    Misako, your comment about".. bluing and polishing." needs further discussion.
    The bluing is not a problem. The machinists and I don't know much about the polishing
    on the mag bottom plate. I do know I don't want to get any hassle from Sako over
    duplicating their original mag. Don't know if anyone FROM Sako reads these discussions
    and would respond to my concern.
    Regards,
    stevespencer
     
  7. stevespencer

    stevespencer Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    goodenough,
    Thank you, for your 'pledge' for the 3 [I assume] round mag. Please pass on this
    discussion to any Finnwolf owners you can contact in Norway, Europe, etc. There will be
    international shipping offered. Hope this project doesn't become a Customs hassle.

    Regards,
    stevespencer
     
  8. stevespencer

    stevespencer Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Emmerth,
    Updating my reply to your message: As you can see, we're going ahead on replacement
    mags for both the 3 and 4 round mags.
    Your further input, Emmerth, would be helpful...as you can put both mags in front of you.
    Do either the spring or the 'lifting plate' that rides the spring appear to be the same in both
    mags? I-obviously-haven't seen a 4 round mag....so this may seem a stupid question. But, if
    only the base and bottom plate differ in the two mags, we'll have less parts to make/deal with.

    Finally, if my descriptive terms for the various box magazine parts are in error-PLEASE
    advise, as it is the machinists and I that came up with the terms I've used above.
    Regards,
    stevespencer
     
  9. emmerth

    emmerth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    8
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Pennsylvania
    Steve,

    This is great. When I have a few moments, I will have to dig through the safe to get them out to shoot some pictures. I just did some reorganizing of the safes and buried the Finnwolfs. I would be interest in a couple of each.

    Send me a PM with your email so i can send Hi-Res pics.

    Thanks

    emmerth
     
  10. dl

    dl Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Country Flag:
    UK
    State/Region:
    UK Scotland
    This is interesting stuff, keep up the good work gents.
     
  11. kuntao

    kuntao Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    1
    Country Flag:
    Canada
    State/Region:
    CA Ontario
    Hi Steve
    I'm in for 2 in a 3 shot mag as long as we can keep the price below 150.00 total. I will go as high as 100.00 for 1. I tried something similar a year or two ago but the magazine manufacturer said it would cost over a 100 thousand for retooling. Never thought of the route you took. Great idea. Keep us informed on how things go.
    Roy
     
  12. kush165

    kush165 Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would be interested in two of each version.
    Here are some comparison pictures.
    The 4 round is on the top /left and 3 round on the bottom / right.
    The one in the middle is a Winchester 88 mag which I am planning on modifying some day.
    I have more if they will help.
    The plate seems to be the same in both Finnwolf magazines on a limited inspection.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. marlin92

    marlin92 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    178
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Pennsylvania
    I would be interested in 2 of them if they will be like the bottom clip in the above photo, and cost i s around $50.
     
  14. badsbsnf81

    badsbsnf81 Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Kansas
    I'd be interested in one 3 rd and one 4 rd if the price would be in the 50-55 range for each.
     
  15. kuntao

    kuntao Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    1
    Country Flag:
    Canada
    State/Region:
    CA Ontario
    Hello Steve
    Just curious how you're making out with orders? This site seems rather quiet and I'm somewhat surprised by that but also realize most of us are on a tight budget. Hopefully we can get enough responses to make this project a go
     
  16. dl

    dl Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Country Flag:
    UK
    State/Region:
    UK Scotland
    I'm interested. Like the others, if the price is not too far off the alternative of modifying a Winchester one, then I would like to be put down for at least one four shot model.
     
  17. strapman

    strapman Active Member

    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Missouri
    I can go for two of the magazines that are in the bottom of the photo. My magazine on my Finnwolf is the "flat base" style. Let me know when you are ready to move forward.

    Thanks
     
  18. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    66
    Country Flag:
    Australia
    State/Region:
    AU Queensland
    Hello all
    I have just bought a Finnwolf SN 56xx in Australia, though have not yet recieved it. I would be interested in a couple of spare magazines. From the pics above It appears that mine is the 3 round mag.
    Is this still a possibility or has the wheels fallen off due to the level of committment thus far?
    When did Sako change from 4 to 3 rounds. was it based on serial numbers or was it a date.

    Cheers
     
  19. northernlights

    northernlights Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    76
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US New Hampshire
    I'd like at least 2 and maybe 3 of the four shot mags. (3 depending on price)
    Thanks...great project!
     
  20. chrisandpip

    chrisandpip Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Put me down for 2 or 3 three shot mags provided the cost isn't astromical. I'm frightened of the day I lose my original.
     

Share This Page