Valmet 412 barrel exchangeability

Discussion in 'Valmet and Tikka' started by cat9, Dec 13, 2020.

  1. cat9

    cat9 Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    Please excuse the ill formed terminology of this note.

    But I was surprised to learn something about Valmet412 combination guns.

    I have a very early 412 in 12 gauge and 308. And a little newer 12/222. I was surprised to learn that the barrels do not interchange.

    One of the guns (I forget which now but if anyone cares I could find out) will accept both barrels. But the other will not.

    Upon examination, there is a difference in the base of the receiver near the back of it on either gun. The 'central piece' on one is wider than on the other.

    I did read somewhere long ago that the early 412 guns had been lightened a little, and a second generation 412 was created Not the 412S, but two versions of the 412.


    Anyway, this may be worth knowing if acquiring new barrels. I expect the experts on this forum knew that already.
     

  2. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    That's useful information. Thanks for posting. I've heard that 412 barrels sometimes require gunsmith fitting but I had not heard anything about different dimensions on early vs. late receivers. I had already decided not to look for additional barrels for my 20-gauge 412; this reinforces that decision.

    It would be very useful to others if you could post photos showing the difference between the two receiver and barrel sets.
     
  3. cat9

    cat9 Well-Known Member

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    I have taken the photos ... now to see if I can upload them?

    V412one.JPG

    V412two.JPG


    V412three.JPG


    V412four.JPG
     
  4. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    Interesting, and a bit strange. The part that is different is the cocking slide, and the channel cut in the bottom of the barrel assembly to accommodate it. One is about 1/4" wide, the other closer to 5/16". The only thing I can figure is that maybe Valmet decided that the cocking slide needed to be more robust when they modified the design for the second version. My 412 has the wider piece. S/N of the receiver is in the 209,000 range. The barrels do not match; the s/n on the barrel assembly is around 238,000.

    What are the serial number ranges for your two Valmets? Is the one with the wider cocking slide the higher number? That would tend to validate my guess that Valmet wanted to strengthen that part.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  5. cat9

    cat9 Well-Known Member

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    Here is a good source. I think if you run it with google chrome it can be translated … or copy and paste into google translate.

    https://waffenlager.net/shotguns/valmet_412.html

    The article says the first serial number for a 412 was 200021.

    The top two pics on the gray background fit together. The receiver is 2001xx. The non-matching barrel is 2214xx.

    The other pair, on the brown background, are both 2093xx.

    The 2001xx has chequering all around the foreend and more steel in the forearm. Seems classier than the later one.

    But I cannot derive any rhyme or reason from the barrel numbers.
     
  6. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    I can't make head or tail of the number sequence either. I looked up the 412 in Arma Fennica and they say the forend design was changed around 1980, so that could account for the wraparound checkering on the earlier gun. I guess the bottom line is that anyone looking for extra barrels for a Valmet 412 needs to verify the width of the channel for the cocking slide with the seller. I don't know what other problems there may be in fitting barrels.

    Thanks for the link. I had sort of forgotten about Waffenlager - it's good to have such a complete explanation of the functioning of the 412 (and a lot of other things). No need for Google Translate - I can read Finnish, although I do need a dictionary, and occasional help from a native speaker, when it comes to specialized firearms terms.
     
  7. mattimoose

    mattimoose Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot guys.
    I have two 412S and and 5 barrel sets. one has 3 barrels serialized to it and the other one has 2 barrel sets with no numbers matching all 5 barrel sets freely interchange in both guns but I was surprised the barrels will not interchange with my friend's Tikka 512. My first one has .30-06 barrels, 12 ga. barrels and 12ga./.223 barrels and single selective trigger. The other one is non-selective and has a set of .30-06 barrels on-it that were re-chambered to .300 Win. Mag. and a second barrel set that came with the gun but does not match either in 6.5x55 and 12 ga. Before anyone's panties bunch, I am not the one who did the .300 conversion.

    It was a well-done conversion with the hand-made extractor being something I would have charged dearly for; but I personally would not have done it. I got the owner to sell me the barrels as he had this gun at gun shows for 5 years and no-one would touch it. the gun sold for the same price without them. I bought them for 300 and checked them out and checked fit before firing. I guess the gunsmith who did it did not understand the barrel regulation and the bottom barrel printed 3 inches higher than the top at 100 yards. 3 boxes of shells later, both are bang-on but the bottom barrel gains a little at 300. Once I got a frame with double triggers, common sense dictated these barrels be dedicated to that receiver. If it were me, I would have re-chambered to.300 H and H but only after the throats of a set of .30-06 barrels were shot-out. I wish I knew the guy who did this as he must have a perfectly good .30-06 extractor.
     
  8. mattimoose

    mattimoose Well-Known Member

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  9. mattimoose

    mattimoose Well-Known Member

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    This pic is on my phone. bottom barrel has.338Snapcap, top has .32 S&W Long- Auxillary cartridge adapter. Note the robust and well-executed extractor with set-screw retained spring-plungers. If you ever wanted to make a .375 Win. Valmet into a .375 H&H, this is what you would need to do.
     
  10. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    If your Valmets are early production, they will have the narrow cocking slides, while your friend's Tikka undoubtedly has the later, wider cocking slide, as shown in Cat9's photos above. Or, the Tikka barrels may just be out of spec with the Valmet. The Tikka 512 was made in Italy by Marocchi, on machinery purchased from Valmet. The same gun is now sold by Marocchi under a different name. The Italian-made guns are generally considered to be of inferior quality compared to the Finnish-built Valmet originals.

    I have thought about getting a set of barrels in 9.3x74R or .375 Win for my 20-gauge Valmet 412, but I've never quite gotten around to it. I prefer a rimmed cartridge for a break-action rifle.
     
  11. cat9

    cat9 Well-Known Member

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    Icebear, as you know I know little about gun engineering. But I 'think' that in fact it is the older Valmet (grey background in photo) that has the wider 'cocking slide'.
    Mattimoose, interesting info, even if a bit beyond me.
     
  12. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    You are correct. I made an error in measuring my gun (s/n 209xxx). It in fact has the narrower cocking slide, the same as yours with the nearby serial number. As a result of the measurement error, I incorrectly concluded that the later guns had the wide slide, when in fact the later guns have the narrower slide. This also blows off my hypothesis that Valmet modified the guns to make the cocking slide more robust. This leaves me at a loss to explain the redesign. Thanks for setting me straight. If I ever decide to add a set of rifle barrels to the Valmet, I'll need to be sure I've got the right ones.

    The difference in the cocking slide may also explain why many sources say that extra Valmet barrels need to be hand fitted to the receiver, while others say they do not. Fitting a late barrel set to an early receiver would require opening up the channel. I've always wondered about that.
     
  13. cat9

    cat9 Well-Known Member

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    And the confusion remains that the barrel with the wide channel is the latest serial number of the ones in play.
     
  14. cat9

    cat9 Well-Known Member

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    But maybe said barrel has been altered?
     
  15. mattimoose

    mattimoose Well-Known Member

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    I have my eye on a couple of 9.3x74's I agree on the rim for extraction though my .30-06 has never failed me in the dozen or so deer it has killed. I just wish it had ejectors, which need a rim. As an aside, the best part of having the extractors in the .30-06 is when I am using an auxilary cartridg-as a quick shunt backwards ejects the .32 acp while still holding onto the adapter. this allows me to feed the gun expeditiously while killing Grouse and Hare, after the Deer is down. It is hard to get a permit here for adult Moose , so if you have a calf tag you can shoot small game with the top barrel quietly with the adapter with the bottom barrel as insurance if you spook a cow and calf.
     

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