Thoughts on blueprinting a L461

Discussion in 'Sako Short Actions' started by Chris Anderson, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. Chris Anderson

    Chris Anderson Well-Known Member

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    I received the rifle for my donor action and am getting ready to start the build. I've talked to a gunsmith that builds some very high end sako customs and he told me that the sako actions are pretty tight and the only thing that needed done was to true up the locking lugs and make sure they are holding the bolt face square to the bore.


    Anybody have experience / opinions about this? When I look around I see lots of smiths offering to blueprint Remingtons but almost no one discussing blueprinting sako's.

    Thanks in advance.
    Chris
     

  2. sakojim

    sakojim Well-Known Member

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    IMHO- Simple Logic: If it ain't broke don't fix it. Never heard of such action needed for a Sako. Save your money. Sakojim.
     
  3. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    He might put some machinist's dye on the lugs just to assure they are fully engaged, but it is unlikely that any "after-work" on a Sako action will improve its function -- and the opposite could be true.

    On a Remington you just shoot proof loads in it hoping that the "short" lug will set back enough to allow the "long" lug to engage without the short lug shearing off first.:D
     
    dgeesaman likes this.
  4. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Remingtons get "blueprinted" because they NEED it. No one discusses blueprinting a Sako because they don't need it. About all your smith can do is screw it up. Save your money!!
     
  5. Foxhunter223

    Foxhunter223 Well-Known Member

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    I asked a gunsmith to do this for me once, he just laughed and said nothing to be done.

    Pete
     
  6. 6x47l

    6x47l Well-Known Member

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    I asked the same question and got the same result Foxhunter
     
  7. GreyFox

    GreyFox Well-Known Member

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    Chris,
    Listen to your gunsmith - not a bunch of strangers on the internet!!

    He'll CHECK the action truness before making any changes. if it's all good - your good, get the barrel squared up keep it true and it shoots straight, PERIOD.
    For a build like that, yes, I'd ENSURE there's no issue that would make you feel your money was not invested wisely, and the product you receive exceeds your expectations.

    Typically, SAKO will not require any truing, however, there's always that 1%.....
     
  8. Paul WILLIAMS

    Paul WILLIAMS Member

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    Sako standards are much higher then Remington, nothing should need to be done to your sako action, Remington on the other hand need it.
     
  9. Chris Anderson

    Chris Anderson Well-Known Member

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    So the consensus is Sako's standard manufacturing process negates any need for "truing" of their actions by end users. Not to surprising but good to hear.

    This is sad to hear :-( . Remington 700's have been my go to rifle for 30 years <sigh>. And to think all those years I could have been shooting a much more inherently accurate rifle.
    :(

    That's exactly why I thought stonecreek suggestion was such a good idea.

    So I took my blue marker and checked the bolt recoil lug engagement on my L461. I found that the right lug has excellent contact with the lug slot when the bolt is cycled but the left lug (slotted for the ejector) only shows 50% contact. I checked it several times but got the same result each time. The leading section of the left lug shows full contact but the trailing section doesn't look like it touches the lug recess at all or if it does the contact is minimal.

    Obviously the rifle is safe to shoot because it's been in service as a .17 Remington for quite a while but I would still wonder if less than full contact on that left lug would make a noticeable difference. I've seen the posts about lapping lugs in but that seemed like a very slow process, of questionable worth.

    I guess I'll have to take the action to a experienced gunsmith and have him look at it.

    Thanks all for your reply's. They have helped a lot.

    Chris
     
  10. kevinlg

    kevinlg Well-Known Member

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    Was the firing pin assembly in the bolt, during this testing? Was the trigger assembly fully attached to the receiver?
     
  11. Chris Anderson

    Chris Anderson Well-Known Member

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    Yes and Yes, but there wasn't a dummy cartridge in the chamber.

    After some research (lots of opinions on this one) I've decided to use the half cartridge and spring method to keep constant rearward pressure on the bolt face and repeat the test again.

    Hopefully I'll see some better results this time.

    Thanks
    Chris
     
  12. Chris Anderson

    Chris Anderson Well-Known Member

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    Well I should have stopped testing after the first go around:(.

    New test process:
    • Buy spring that will just fit inside the cut down case and shorten it so it's about 1 inch longer than the standard loaded cartridge.
    • Cut off empty casing to about 0.9 inches and force the cut end of the spring down into the casing until it bottoms out behind the primer.
    • Clean the locking lugs on the bolt and "re blue" with blue marker.
    • Insert dummy cartridge into chamber, slide bolt into raceway, hold down trigger and close and open the bolt 10 times.
    • Extract bolt from rifle and check locking lugs for blue. The right hand lug shows full contact but the left one showed virtually no contact at all now. Scratch head and repeat the above test. Same results, scratch head again. Think about the results for a minute and decide to try and replicate my original locking lug results.
    • Clean bolt and re-blue. Insert dummy cartridge into chamber, insert bolt into action the close and open the bolt once. Extract bolt and check for blue. No blue on right locking lug. Full blue coverage on left locking lug. There might have been some light contact in the very tip of the left locking lug.

    And I was REALLY wanting the first answer to be the final answer :confused:

    All the above was done with the barreled action completely assembled. Firing pin in the bolt and trigger attached to action. When I closed the bolt on the spring loaded dummy shell I could feel the back pressure from the spring. Quite a bit more resistance than closing the bolt with a regular cartridge but nothing so high that I struggled getting the bolt closed and locked.

    So I'm stumped :confused: Any one know a gunsmith who handles lots of sako's that I can send it to and get a paid for opinion?

    Thanks
    Chris
     
  13. kevinlg

    kevinlg Well-Known Member

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    The trigger housing sear is pushing up on the bolt sear......unseating the top bolt lug(when bolt is fully closed). I would suggest removing the firing pin assembly, from the bolt .......and re-test.
     
  14. Chris Anderson

    Chris Anderson Well-Known Member

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    Per your suggestion I removed the firing pin and retested. This time there was over 80% contact on both lugs with just a small bit of blue, the same shape, size and location, left on the bottom trailing corner on each lug.

    HURRAY!!

    I thought that the spring loaded dummy case would overcome anything in the bolt but, seeing the firing pin spring, it's obvious that wouldn't be true.

    kevinlg, you are a scholar and gentleman. You've saved me time, money and consternation. I appreciate it.

    Now on to the barrel. :)

    Thanks
    Chris
     
  15. Chris Anderson

    Chris Anderson Well-Known Member

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    Oh and, one more thing.

    If I eliminate blueprinting the action and jeweling the bolt (but keep polishing and re-bluing) is there any other attention I should give this action before I put on a new barrel?
     
  16. gowyo

    gowyo Sako Junkie

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    So if you're thinking of rebarreling your 17, what caliber are you going to go to? How is your bolt face/ firing pin? Any gas cutting from pierced primers? If so, you might want to get a bolt face bushing, and a new smaller diameter firing pin.
     
  17. Chris Anderson

    Chris Anderson Well-Known Member

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    stonecreek about has me talked into 221 Fireball (but the 20 VarTrg looks awfully tempting).

    Bolt face / firing pin look good. No gas cutting or erosion from pierced primers.

    Thanks
    ChrisA
     
  18. Webphut

    Webphut Well-Known Member

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    This!

    Midway USA has a video showing how to blueprint an action. I think it was a model 700 used as the Guiny pig, anyways after I watched it, I am convinced that blueprinting a sako action would be in all honesty a very very last option. Squaring up the lugs might be something to consider, along with the bolt face. More so to clean up the bolt face than to square it though. The lugs you can do yourself by just lapping them with 3m buffing paste. I doubt the need to use the normal gun lapping compound one would use for scope rings would be necessary, but maybe. If the Sako action was used with hot rod loads, it might not hurt to throw a last word indicator on the mating/fastening surfaces.
     
  19. Chris Anderson

    Chris Anderson Well-Known Member

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    Webphut,

    Yeah, the experts here have convinced me of that. In fact I've ask lots of gunsmiths/people and have always gotten the same answer. Blueprinting is more likely to screw it up than improve it.

    I checked the lugs with layout die and they have very even > 95% contact. I've been considering cleaning/squaring up the bolt face though.

    I've never heard of a last word indicator. Could you educate me?

    I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

    Thanks
    ChrisA
     
  20. Webphut

    Webphut Well-Known Member

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    I am the least qualified person on this forum as to being Sako knowledgeable. In fact 99% of the smith work I need, I pay for an actual gunsmith do the work I need, simply because I lack the confidence in myself to do the work and have it be correct when done. On another note as to why then would I throw out the term last word indicator to the reader; I been working with metal since I was seven years old. I am now 45. Figuring out how to diagnose if something is true/square on some items/parts/jobs/projects, a Starret last word indicator, is a wonderful and practical tool to use, not to mention a pretty affordable tool too once you get aquainted with it and see how durable and user friendly this tool is when it comes to not only using, but often times replacing parts on the thing. It is a great value period. And the best part for me, is the factory that makes these are right here in America, so a dollar that will go to the right place. Once you see there is a flaw with the starret, sometimes you need to really get down to working in the .0000" and even sometimes splitting hairs, then I resort to precision tools made by Mitutytoto. These are expensive, fragile tools. When one is broken, it is a serious cry baby face. Unfortunately too, not from America.

    OK, enough of that stuff. Here is a video on some indicators you can see.

     

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