misako50
Sako-addicted
Does anyone know the approximate date of the start of the "classic style" stocks for the A2 Foresters? Thanks, Misako
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The Starting date for Sako Classics
- Thread starter misako50
- Start date
Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum
- Admin
- #2
Misako
The Classic Grades were introduced 79 in the US. And appeared for the first time, in the Stoeger catalog in 1980. Introduced in Europe about the same time.
However, just now I vaguely remember maybe the AII came a little later?? Maybe a year or so??
IxB4ll check it and get back tomorrow!
ItxB4s way beyond bedtime over here!!
Meanwhile! Enjoy!
Jim
The Classic Grades were introduced 79 in the US. And appeared for the first time, in the Stoeger catalog in 1980. Introduced in Europe about the same time.
However, just now I vaguely remember maybe the AII came a little later?? Maybe a year or so??
IxB4ll check it and get back tomorrow!
ItxB4s way beyond bedtime over here!!
Meanwhile! Enjoy!
Jim
Attachments
![[SakoCollectors.com] The Starting date for Sako Classics](https://data.sakocollectors.com/attachments/0/453-e703558ae60965755b04cb3a5b727f50.jpg?hash=By1ciQgBhz)
misako50
Sako-addicted
- Thread starter
- #3
Jim- I was always under the assumption that the A series came just before the Stoeger Era. I had an A style bolt in a L579 action at the serial number that would put it at "transition". But you know Sako, they used up all the L579 stamped actions before stamping AII on the next batch. I do remember when you and I "met" for the first time, you were heavily into classics. Don't think that was a bad thing to "be into".
![[SakoCollectors.com] The Starting date for Sako Classics](https://sakocollectors.lefora.com/static/forum/t.gif "[SakoCollectors.com] The Starting date for Sako Classics")
Mike
- Admin
- #4
Mike!
I really have no clue to what came first, Stoeger or the A-series but I it has been my impression the A-series came to life at the same time Stoeger started importing Sako?? I think I have read this somewhere??
I know John Sundra states, who wrote a, somewhat ignorant article in G&A in December 1983, that Stoeger started importing Sako in 1976. I donxB4t know if this is true but I guess some of you American gentlemen can find out??:smile1:
I have checked around a little and this is what IxB4ve found so far about the Classic Grades:
- I have most Garcia catalogs up until 76 and there are no A-series in those.
- The first Stoeger catalog IxB4ve got, is a 78 and the A-series is there. They also state that Sako is a "newcomer" to the Stoeger family. No Classic Grades.
- And there are no Classic Grades in the 79 catalog either. However, it came with a leaflet with "Specifications", and it includes the specs. of the Classic Grade and Safari.
- In 1980 the Classic Grade appears in the catalog alongside the Safari Grade. But the AII was only available in .243Win. That is what I was thinking of! The .308Win was introduced a year or so later.
At first , the Classic Grades, was availble in AI, AII and AIII. Later came the AV which was discontinued around 86-87 if I remember correctly. Up until this time, the stocks had wrap-around checkering on the fore end and NICE wood. Late in the AV series, the stocks got a new design with pressed "sidepanel" and much more bland wood. This was around 1991 when they were introduced again. The Classic Grade were also available from 1992 with the new actions introduced then. I.E L691 et al.
Most ClassicxB4s were AII and AIII but a few were made on the AI actions as well. Only ever seen a handful of those.
Calibers up to 7mm even if there is one reference of Classics in 9,3x62 but that is surely a misprint, to the best of my knowledge.
And yes Mike, you are right!! I was heavily in to those when we "met"!:smile1:
My 2 cents again!
Jim
I really have no clue to what came first, Stoeger or the A-series but I it has been my impression the A-series came to life at the same time Stoeger started importing Sako?? I think I have read this somewhere??
I know John Sundra states, who wrote a, somewhat ignorant article in G&A in December 1983, that Stoeger started importing Sako in 1976. I donxB4t know if this is true but I guess some of you American gentlemen can find out??:smile1:
I have checked around a little and this is what IxB4ve found so far about the Classic Grades:
- I have most Garcia catalogs up until 76 and there are no A-series in those.
- The first Stoeger catalog IxB4ve got, is a 78 and the A-series is there. They also state that Sako is a "newcomer" to the Stoeger family. No Classic Grades.
- And there are no Classic Grades in the 79 catalog either. However, it came with a leaflet with "Specifications", and it includes the specs. of the Classic Grade and Safari.
- In 1980 the Classic Grade appears in the catalog alongside the Safari Grade. But the AII was only available in .243Win. That is what I was thinking of! The .308Win was introduced a year or so later.
At first , the Classic Grades, was availble in AI, AII and AIII. Later came the AV which was discontinued around 86-87 if I remember correctly. Up until this time, the stocks had wrap-around checkering on the fore end and NICE wood. Late in the AV series, the stocks got a new design with pressed "sidepanel" and much more bland wood. This was around 1991 when they were introduced again. The Classic Grade were also available from 1992 with the new actions introduced then. I.E L691 et al.
Most ClassicxB4s were AII and AIII but a few were made on the AI actions as well. Only ever seen a handful of those.
Calibers up to 7mm even if there is one reference of Classics in 9,3x62 but that is surely a misprint, to the best of my knowledge.
And yes Mike, you are right!! I was heavily in to those when we "met"!:smile1:
My 2 cents again!
Jim
- Admin
- #6
Although Stoeger immediately made plans to rename the L-series guns as A-series, Stoeger imported many, many guns marked as L-series. In fact, it was probably well into the 1980's before most of the rifles Stoeger was importing were actually marked "A". As always, there was much mixing and matching going on. I once owned a Stoeger .300 Win marked L61R which had a factory original shrouded bolt like an A. Also, apparently Stoeger started labeling the boxes with the "A" designations even though the rifles inside were still marked "L".
My understanding is that the changeover from "L" to "A" was simply another ill-conceived marketing move designed to cause less sophisticated buyers to belive that the product was somehow "new and improved". Well, it did gain the bolt shoud (eventually, which also necessitated the advent of the cocking indicator), but I've never known of a Sako to leak gas through the unshrouded firing pin channel, anyway. Compare the relative demand for A's to that of pre-Garcia L's and you'll see what "new and improved" does for you.
My understanding is that the changeover from "L" to "A" was simply another ill-conceived marketing move designed to cause less sophisticated buyers to belive that the product was somehow "new and improved". Well, it did gain the bolt shoud (eventually, which also necessitated the advent of the cocking indicator), but I've never known of a Sako to leak gas through the unshrouded firing pin channel, anyway. Compare the relative demand for A's to that of pre-Garcia L's and you'll see what "new and improved" does for you.
- Admin
- #7
stonecreek!
I second most what you are stating here! "Mixing and matching" must be some Finnish virtue!
Which Sako has made their lead star!!
DonxB4t think guys like sako-a-series approve of the " less sophisticated" label though!:wink2:
Did some checking on the sako.fi site and took some screenshots. They are quite interesting actually!
HerexB4s some curiosities!
Check the dates!
The L461 is discontinued in 30.09.77 and the AI starts in 30.09.79??? A two year intermission? Gotta be a type-o!
Also some discrepancies with the L579. Missing dates and so on.
L61R are discontinud in 26.08.77 and AIII starts in 06.03.78? 6 and a half month w/o production???
Also wonder about the 901 L61R rifles produced in 23.05.77!!! Anyone knows about these??
Jim
I second most what you are stating here! "Mixing and matching" must be some Finnish virtue!
Which Sako has made their lead star!!
DonxB4t think guys like sako-a-series approve of the " less sophisticated" label though!:wink2:
Did some checking on the sako.fi site and took some screenshots. They are quite interesting actually!
HerexB4s some curiosities!
Check the dates!
The L461 is discontinued in 30.09.77 and the AI starts in 30.09.79??? A two year intermission? Gotta be a type-o!
Also some discrepancies with the L579. Missing dates and so on.
L61R are discontinud in 26.08.77 and AIII starts in 06.03.78? 6 and a half month w/o production???
Also wonder about the 901 L61R rifles produced in 23.05.77!!! Anyone knows about these??
Jim
Attachments
![[SakoCollectors.com] The Starting date for Sako Classics](https://data.sakocollectors.com/attachments/0/454-b3d441b62bcd38615889cce0ab540b0b.jpg?hash=ZINiXAgspD)
![[SakoCollectors.com] The Starting date for Sako Classics](https://data.sakocollectors.com/attachments/0/455-9faef6d75bd46e711823f68b430f9d27.jpg?hash=Iqa1dmmA5o)
![[SakoCollectors.com] The Starting date for Sako Classics](https://data.sakocollectors.com/attachments/0/456-933ca03145bab4b2b062151beb97da9b.jpg?hash=lh1h0aaqhB)
- Admin
- #8
Jim,
I didn't mean to imply that buyers of the A-series guns (of which guns I own several) are less sophisticated, only that buyers who might have bought a new gun from Stoeger based on the belief that the name change to "A-III" made it somehow better were "unsophisticated".
I agree that the chart you reproduced is unreliable. However, anyone attempting to produce a chart on Sako designations and dates of production would have an impossible challenge.
I didn't mean to imply that buyers of the A-series guns (of which guns I own several) are less sophisticated, only that buyers who might have bought a new gun from Stoeger based on the belief that the name change to "A-III" made it somehow better were "unsophisticated".
I agree that the chart you reproduced is unreliable. However, anyone attempting to produce a chart on Sako designations and dates of production would have an impossible challenge.
sako-a-series
Well-Known Member
I just have to add my $.02 on this one or I need to drop my handle!
First, of all Jim, thanks for the comprehensive history of the classic series- very informative.
Secondly, in regard to the A series, it represents the pinnacle of Sako production form both a functional and aesthetic perspective. Why?
1.) No machining shortcuts or lack of materials found in the later series.
2.) You now have the excelleant hunter style stock, with palm swell and cheekpiece and rounded forend. A vast ergonomic improvement from the prior L series with sharper angles. McMillan, possibly the premier stock maker in the world, called the Sako hunter style stock, the best hunting style stock ever developed.
3.) Aesthetically, the standard L series may have a deeper blueing and higher gloss than the standard A series hunter, BUT an L series deluxe has NOTHING on an A series deluxe.
4.) BOFORS= Big Deal! I have read accounts of where Sako continued to use Bofors steel from Sweden after the name was dropped from the barrel. I also have never heard of bofors marked barrels lasting longer or being more accurate than post bofors barrels.
The Sako classic stock also appears cleaner and more refined than the L series. Also gone is the waffle recoil pad, you know, the one that appears smooshed half the time!
So why are the L series possibly more coveted than an A series? Those who are familiar with the L series are older, and thus have more disposable income, not necessarily more sophisticated. A lot of the A series enthusiasts are still saving for retirement and paying college bills!
Dave
Sako-A-Series
First, of all Jim, thanks for the comprehensive history of the classic series- very informative.
Secondly, in regard to the A series, it represents the pinnacle of Sako production form both a functional and aesthetic perspective. Why?
1.) No machining shortcuts or lack of materials found in the later series.
2.) You now have the excelleant hunter style stock, with palm swell and cheekpiece and rounded forend. A vast ergonomic improvement from the prior L series with sharper angles. McMillan, possibly the premier stock maker in the world, called the Sako hunter style stock, the best hunting style stock ever developed.
3.) Aesthetically, the standard L series may have a deeper blueing and higher gloss than the standard A series hunter, BUT an L series deluxe has NOTHING on an A series deluxe.
4.) BOFORS= Big Deal! I have read accounts of where Sako continued to use Bofors steel from Sweden after the name was dropped from the barrel. I also have never heard of bofors marked barrels lasting longer or being more accurate than post bofors barrels.
The Sako classic stock also appears cleaner and more refined than the L series. Also gone is the waffle recoil pad, you know, the one that appears smooshed half the time!
So why are the L series possibly more coveted than an A series? Those who are familiar with the L series are older, and thus have more disposable income, not necessarily more sophisticated. A lot of the A series enthusiasts are still saving for retirement and paying college bills!
Dave
Sako-A-Series
sako-a-series
Well-Known Member
Just my opinion of course! Harmeless- no shots fired!
barreltwister
Well-Known Member
I agree Dave....I have both L's and A's...nothing at all wrong with A series Sakos......and the new design Hunter stock is a better fit for me than the older angular, sharp cornered L stock....but I can appreciate the L's for what they are..
wookie316
Well-Known Member
How about a hybrid :bigsmile3: A L61R action dropped into a Fiberclass stock :wink2: A little body work & BAM a nicely fitted 3 lug L61R in a newer Fiberclass. Best of both worlds IMO.
![[SakoCollectors.com] The Starting date for Sako Classics](https://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss108/jhowdle/_JAY6688.jpg "[SakoCollectors.com] The Starting date for Sako Classics")
![[SakoCollectors.com] The Starting date for Sako Classics](https://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss108/jhowdle/_JAY6689.jpg "[SakoCollectors.com] The Starting date for Sako Classics")
- Admin
- #15
Dave: It is impossible to disagree with another's tastes, but I do prefer the L-series (and early A-series) style stocks. I particularly dislike the palm swell on the late A-series, but that's just my taste. The other shortcoming I find with the late A-series is the use of shorter barrels. They were cut from 24.4" to 22.5", even in the magnum calibers. This is a distinct ballistic disadvantage, as well as increasing muzzle blast. Again, this reflects my tastes and is just as validly argued from the other perspective. I don't have any experience with adjusting the late A-series trigger, so I can't comment on it as compared to the old #4 trigger.
The only late A-series I own is one of the nearly impossible-to-find .280 Remingtons. Despite the caliber's rarity, I'm probably going to sell this one simply because the late "A's" don't float my boat. But if they're a favorite of yours, you've got every reason to prefer their features. As far as quality, they are identical to their L-series predecessors. I don't even mind the synthetic magazine follower found on some of them.
One thing we can agree on: The Classics were outstanding, both in form and quality. I've got my eye out for a nice one, but it seems that a lot of other Sako enthusiasts do, also!
The only late A-series I own is one of the nearly impossible-to-find .280 Remingtons. Despite the caliber's rarity, I'm probably going to sell this one simply because the late "A's" don't float my boat. But if they're a favorite of yours, you've got every reason to prefer their features. As far as quality, they are identical to their L-series predecessors. I don't even mind the synthetic magazine follower found on some of them.
One thing we can agree on: The Classics were outstanding, both in form and quality. I've got my eye out for a nice one, but it seems that a lot of other Sako enthusiasts do, also!
mcgrif2243
Banned
Dave,
So....Why ARE the L series possibly more coveted than the A series? You state that it is because of old guys familiar with the L series with lots of money (AKA, disposable income). How on earth can these two factors alone be used to determine what is more coveted? Come on....Really!! I would love to explain to you actually why the L series rifles ARE (not possibly) more coveted, but I know you are busy saving for retirement and paying college bills. To Jim, S-A, Dick, Stone, Mike, Scott.....I'm sorry, I just could not help myself!:cry3:
Regards, Will
So....Why ARE the L series possibly more coveted than the A series? You state that it is because of old guys familiar with the L series with lots of money (AKA, disposable income). How on earth can these two factors alone be used to determine what is more coveted? Come on....Really!! I would love to explain to you actually why the L series rifles ARE (not possibly) more coveted, but I know you are busy saving for retirement and paying college bills. To Jim, S-A, Dick, Stone, Mike, Scott.....I'm sorry, I just could not help myself!:cry3:
Regards, Will
- Admin
- #18
May be getting a little off track here said:
I'm pretty sure it is not, but I'll check to make sure when I get home tonight. It is the regular Hunter grade with non-sheen stock, palm swell, and 22.5" barrel. However, it is in pristine condition.
- Admin
- #19
Gents!
NothingxB4s like a good old "flame war" xB4 tween the AxB4s and the LxB4s!!:bigsmile3:
LetxB4s not forget we are all on the same team though! Old or young!:wink2:
Before I go I just have to stoke the fire!!:angel2:
I quote Dave!
"The Sako classic stock also appears cleaner and more refined than the L series."
I hear you brother and couldnxB4t agree more but there is another reason for choosing A-series as well:
https://gallery.me.com/sakoparaphernalia/100040
Eat your hearts out, you L-series geezers!!:evil2:
Jim
NothingxB4s like a good old "flame war" xB4 tween the AxB4s and the LxB4s!!:bigsmile3:
LetxB4s not forget we are all on the same team though! Old or young!:wink2:
Before I go I just have to stoke the fire!!:angel2:
I quote Dave!
"The Sako classic stock also appears cleaner and more refined than the L series."
I hear you brother and couldnxB4t agree more but there is another reason for choosing A-series as well:
https://gallery.me.com/sakoparaphernalia/100040
Eat your hearts out, you L-series geezers!!:evil2:
Jim
Hey Will,
No problem. I'm not getting into this one. I have a diverse portfolio and see the value in both. I just took a couple of my Weatherby DGR's out and have been beating them with a baseball bat in honor of all you quibblers:bigsmile3:
S-A
No problem. I'm not getting into this one. I have a diverse portfolio and see the value in both. I just took a couple of my Weatherby DGR's out and have been beating them with a baseball bat in honor of all you quibblers:bigsmile3:
S-A
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