Spoilt for choice....which one would you go for?

Discussion in 'Sako Mannlichers and Carbines' started by oneshotbandit, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. oneshotbandit

    oneshotbandit Well-Known Member

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    Basic reason for needing :wink: a small calibre Sako is my next trip to S.Africa for small antelope! (you need a one for duikers, steenbucks, hyena, springbuck, etc don't you???) :wink:


    Looking at two early Sakos.........:crazy:

    1) a 461 in 223Rem with varmint barrel, wide forend and what the seller says is an original Sako diopter (?). In 95% condition!

    2) a shorter full stock S491 in 222Rem in 60% condition but will come out nicely with some T.L.C.. No dings or cracks but the stock needs a makeover and the blueing will have to be redone. (or maybe durakoted :faint2:)

    Prices are nearly the same and if I sell off the diopter the 461 will fall into the bargain category!

    My concern is the length, weight and handiness of the 491 carbine versus length, weight and accuracy of the 461.

    What would YOU go for?
     

  2. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    The L461 Varmint model is a bit too heavy for offhand shooting. While they are wonderful guns (and I own a couple of them) they are not very well adapted to shooting other than from the bench or other fixed position. The S491 has a slightly heavier receiver which is larger in diameter than the L461, but only by a few ounces. Particularly in the Mannlicher model it should be much lighter, handier, and a better field gun for game.

    As to the difference in the cartridges, if loaded to the same pressures the velocities will only differ by about 100 fps, less maybe a bit more for the shorter barrel.
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Sako-addicted

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    I think the ability to handle the HB offhanded would be dependent on your overall physical condition. Get the feel of it and see what you think. The "diopter" mentioned could be another reference for a peep sight.

    Also, the .223 will offer you a slightly heavier bullet to work with for that little extra "shock" value.

    I would personally never turn down a heavy barrel all things pretty much equal. I have a lot heavier rifles that I shoot off hand than a .223 HB/varmint.

    Good Luck,

    S-A
     
  4. rowdy

    rowdy Well-Known Member

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    One shot,

    I have looked at both what Stonecreek and S-A have advised you in regards to the 222 and the 223.

    They both have very valid arguments and are persusive.

    I personnally think that there is only one way forward.

    Buy both Sako's.

    That way there is no down side.

    Rowdy
     
  5. ditchdogger

    ditchdogger Active Member

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    If it is not feasable to buy both as Rowdy's fine suggestion, May I interject with that if you are going to reblue and refinnish the stock of the full wood, It is no longer an original rifle and just rechamber to the 223 and get the extra fps and readily available ammo almost anywhere on the planet.
     
  6. 2greggs

    2greggs Well-Known Member

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    I Have Both

    Here are my A1 .222 & .223 with Leupold VX2 4-12x40 scopes. Have not yet to shoot them. I wish I could take pictures like Wookie!.

    Regards, Gregg
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  7. emmerth

    emmerth Well-Known Member

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    2gregg, you are such a show off :mod:

    In reference to choice, both will do the job just fine on those little guys. Since you will be bringing plenty of ammo with you, this should not be an issue. The only concern that I would have is the weight and it does make a difference. I have lugged (and still do) heavy rifles up and down hills, through swamps, and everything else and they get heavy (no matter physical condition). If you plan on doing extensive hiking during your hunt, this may be a consideration for you and you may want the lighter S491. If you decide not to go with the S491, let us know. I am sure one of us would love to snatch it up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  8. 2greggs

    2greggs Well-Known Member

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    Emmerth

    I hope to find the 22-250 NIB in this model, I only have five Sakos, But they cover what I need to hunt.
     
  9. oneshotbandit

    oneshotbandit Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys........all are VERY valid points AND if I wasn't looking at a Finnbear AV in 375 H&H towards the end of the month and possibly a Safari L61R in 338 Win Mag I would snatch them both.....darned recession!

    The extra fps is not an issue and I will probably not be going on long hikes. Hunting klipspringer, duiker, suni, etc will be more of a waiting and calling in game at ranges between 180 and 300 metres.

    Style-wise I like the mannlicher more, but I have read so many contrasting views about their accuracy that I am tempted not to risk it!

    Have four days to decide!

    BTW the diopter / peep sight is mounted / clamped on the rear section of the Sako dovetail much like a scpe ring is. There is no rear sight on the barrel but it sports a hooded front sight!
     
  10. emmerth

    emmerth Well-Known Member

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    I was not a big fan of the mannlichers (because I thought they looked funny) until a little more than a year ago. I picked up my first AIII in .270 at a give away price and it shoots great. Does not miss a beat. I have since picked up 2 more and they also shoot great and I now like the way they look and handle. One of them is a .222 L461. Slick little gun. I would not shy away from mannlicher. Good luck on your decision and your hunt.
     
  11. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    The accuracy of the heavy barreled gun will likely be outstanding, provided it hasn't suffered in any way at the hands of a previous owner. The Mannlicher probably won't quite match the HB in accuacy, at least not for a 10-shot group, but I've found the Sako Mannlichers I own to be every bit as accurate as the Sako sporters in the same calibers. I happen to own a Sako L461 Mannlicher, and it doesn't take a back seat to any of my Sakos and will shoot sub-MOA groups with nearly any ammunition.

    In terms of accuracy, the .222 tends to be, all things being equal, a bit more accurate than the .223. However, just as their ballistic difference is rather negligible, so is their accuracy potential. No Klipspringer, duiker, or jackal will know the difference between the two cartridges. I've never hunted the little antelopes, but my impression is that they (the duikers at least) are often taken in brushy areas and on-the-run. If that is true, you'll be much better off with the Mannlicher.
     
  12. oneshotbandit

    oneshotbandit Well-Known Member

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    So......my mind has been made up and I have plunged for the full stock one. :hug:

    Will remove the 6x42 Norris scope and fit probably a Swarovski 1.7-10x42 Z6i on it with Optilock Ringmounts. Should give me a snug fit with the barrel.

    A good strip and clean won't harm it for sure, then we'll see about the general condition of the wood and metal and whether they need any work or just T.L.C. Maybe refresh the chequering and a good rub with B.L.O. will revive it.

    What's your opinion on these lines? It will work a few times in Africa with me!

    Then we have to work up a load for the baby! Thinking of some Barnes TTSX's 50 grain bullets!
     

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  13. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Actually, its condition in the photos doesn't look that rough. A simple rub-down with linseed oil might do everything you need in terms of cosmetics. My advice is that if the Swarovski you plan to put on it will fit (not sure about 1" vs 26mm, or is the Swaro a 30mm?), simply use the mounts that are on it. The Optilocks offer no advantage but are somewhat heavier and a great deal costlier.

    You'll find removing the metal from the stock a bit tricky on the Mannlichers. If it is like my older L-series guns you'll need to remove the sight blade (or on this model, the sight ramp is probably removable with screws, which is even better). You then remove the cross screw from the barrrel band and slide the band forward over the muzzle, after which you remove the stock much as if it were a normal sporter. I don't know if the A-1 used a one-piece or two-piece stock. If two piece, it will be joined under the barrel band with a small metal bridge inletted below the barrel channel.

    Good luck with those pygmy antelopes! They're a lot easier to field dress than an eland.:wink2:
     
  14. oneshotbandit

    oneshotbandit Well-Known Member

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    Thank you stonecreek. I will keep this post handy for when I am about to strip it.

    As for the scope rings...they have to be 30mm. Looking alternatively at the NF 2.5-10x32 as well. Want to keep it handy. The Optilock ringmounts fit directly to the dovetails without any bases. I have a set on an 85 Varmint and like them a lot. Will repost some pics when it is ready for action and maybe a load developed.
     
  15. oneshotbandit

    oneshotbandit Well-Known Member

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    Have the rifle in hand finally.......scope flies out on an older .22.

    Stock was in exceptional shape except some grime from years of being carried about. A few rubs with good old O'Cedar polish did that justice.

    Metalwork bluing was at 40% on all parts exposed to air but no signs of rust with a lot of spots where it was missing altogether (like blood stains). Oil beneath the woodwork was non existent and the trigger pull was still the factory setting! Probably never taken apart! And carried a lot!

    Strip, clean, wash, lighten trigger pull, strip and clean bolt and a light re-oiling. Metalwork I degreased and cold blued to give me a lovely uniform blue.......now it looks the biz AND FEELS LIKE A SAKO SHOULD........SMOOTH AND SLICK.

    Next comes the new Schmidt & Bender 3-12x42 on optilock ringmounts and we're ready to go for some load testing and development!

    Handy little puppy!
     
  16. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Be sure to report on your successes in Africa when you return. By the way, where are you going and what else besides the small antelopes are you intending to hunt?
     
  17. oneshotbandit

    oneshotbandit Well-Known Member

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    SAKO CARBINE action.JPG SAKO CARBINE full view.JPG

    Finally have it all set up as I want it...with a Schmidt & Bender 3-12x42 Illuminated reticle scope on sako Optilock Ringmounts. Although maybe not politically correct I fitted the front sight hood off an unused Sako Quad rimfire sight! Looks good.

    Prepped some loads with Vihtavuori N110 and N120 powders and soft point 45 grain bullets......with a short barrel on this baby I need some fast burning and light bullet. On Quickload I have loads ranging 3180fps to 3300fps.

    We'll see how it goes!
     
  18. oneshotbandit

    oneshotbandit Well-Known Member

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    It will be Vaal Rhebok, Springbok, Mountain reedbuck, duiker, Vervet monkey and Baboon. And any other small game we may chance upon....it won't be an easy hunt for the little buggers above!
     
  19. eddsako

    eddsako Banned

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    I would go for the 223 because it is a good calibre and a more collectable (L461) rifle as not many were made in that calibre only produced for about 2 -3 year in small numbers. (so I have heard) and the accuracy of the 223 L461 is unquestionable.
    good luck making your choice.
    regards
    eddsakko
     
  20. eddsako

    eddsako Banned

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    That is a great looking rifle ? have a great hunt I wonder if that front sight will get in the way of the scope when shooting.
     

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