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Scope opinions

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

glennconnot

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
14
I'm looking to get a new scope for my Finnbear 7mm remmag and wanted people's opinions on scopes. I've heard you ought to spend as much on a scope as you do on the rifle, and currently my scope is subpar by this standard. I have a secondhand Nikon Buckmaster 3-9x40mm that I like, but frankly want something a little better. I was looking into BDC reticled scopes and this looks like the way to go, but I've never used them before apart from the ACOG on my Army M4, which was made specifically for 5.56mm NATO. A friend of mine uses a Zeiss scope and swears he'll never go back to anything else, but the price is... prohibitive. So far I've perused Nikon, Zeiss, and Leupold and found a few I like but the options are exhaustive. Any strong opinions on the matter?
 
I have the Leupold VX-3L scopes , with the CDS dial on my Sako 300mag and Cooper 243win , both were used scopes off e-bay . a 3.5-10x50 for $500 and a 3.5-10x56 for $700 both in the boxes, with their lifetime guarantee you can't go wrong. A Zeiss 3-9x36 on a 6mm, super clear, great scope. And I purchased a used rifle with a Nikon that had an inner gasket falling inside the scope, and they replaced it with a new scope for free. I would buy the best quality of your brand of choice that you can afford, there are deals out there if you search for them. When I had my 7mm it had a VX-3 2.5-8x36, a nice light scope that I took big game out to 350yds with no problem.
 
glenncannot,
Welcome to the forum. First forget that remark of spending as much on the scope as the rifle. That equation just doesn't work. I would think more in line of what I was going to use the rifle for.
A scope is something you can always put on something else if you decide to do so. There are a lot of quality optics out there and price is not always an indicator of what is better. There are some decent deals and some over-priced beyond reason. I guess if you have something you like, and it works for you, then your perception of "better" is one thing you need to focus on. Scope preferences and prices are greatly varied and each individual has his/her perception of what they think works best for them in any given "adventure". What I hear you saying is the reticle is really your major concern. I have an M4 and use the Leupold CQT on that, but that obviously would not suit a 7mm RM. Not the same issue reticle as the military ACOG, either. Find the various models with those reticles and I don't doubt your eye will find something that agrees with your wallet. I would suggest you browse the forum since there are many comments on scopes and rings ranging from the antiquated to the modern. If you get a chance, go to edit profile and put your location in the "signature" section and hit "save". Again, welcome aboard. S-A
.
 
You don't have to spend an inordinate amount on a scope for a hunting rifle to get dependability. How much you spend depends on the bells and whistles you want. For a hunting rifle, I find that there are not all that many features that add to a scope's utility; in fact, too many features tend to make a hunting scope heavier, more subject to damage, and complex features may make it slow to use when getting it into action rapidly is the difference between making a successful shot and just seeing the rear end of your trophy disappear into the woods.

Here are my criteria for a scope for a hunting rifle. Others will surely have different opinions that are just as valid as mine, but that's fine and is what makes the world go around:

1. Top end magnification no greater than 10X (there's nothing you would shoot at with a hunting rifle that you can't see clearly when magnified 10 times, at least not within a range at which you should be shooting at it!)

2. No adjustable objective or side focus (will always be set to the wrong distance when you see game, and the adjustment also create another place for moisture to infiltrate and another system that can break.)

3. Objective lens no larger than 40mm (larger lenses often place the scope too high for your eye to naturally align with the sight picture making them slower to use. They also add weight and bulk that you don't want in a hunting rifle. While larger lenses create a larger exit pupil, they aren't really "brighter" in practical terms because when it gets dusky you can turn your magnification down a bit and still generate the largest exit pupil your eye can use with a 40mm objective.)

4. Good eye relief and generous eye placment (this is important in hunting situations because you may have to shoot from an odd position which places your eye in a less than optimal position. A generous "eye window" also allows you to acquire the sight picture more rapidly when a quick shot is necessary.

There are lots of good scopes on the market these days, and nearly all of them, other than the bargain-basement brands, offer optics that provide excellent resolution. However, not every manufacturer of "good optics" couples those optics with the other features that make a telescope into a good riflescope. Shop around, and if possible, sight through the scopes you are interested in when actually mounted on a rifle. It would surprise you how much different a scope's sight picture appears when mounted on a rifle and looking at a target 100 or more yards away versus holding up to your eye and looking at the bicycle rack 80 feet away on the other side of the store.
 
What stonecreek says makes a lot of sense. I do disagree with limiting the power to 10X, tho, especially on a 7mm Rem mag.
I mostly shoot 224 calibers but I do own a 7mm Rem mag that I've had a Leupold VXII 3-9X40 on for something like 37 years. I've killed deer, mountain goats and caribou with it and it always performed well but as I age I find that I like a little more magnification so I put 4-12 power scopes on some of my rifles. In fact I just put a Leupold VX3 4.5-14X40 on my Sako 22-250. Higher end scopes give you a better FOV so you're not losing much on the low end and can crank it up when you need it. I seldom have the scope off of the low end but I get the occasional coyote that hangs up at long yardage. I have a Leupold VXII 4-12X50 on my 220 Swift and I like the additional light and magnification.
But.... it all depends on how you're going to use your rifle. I hunted big game in Alaska under a wide range of circumstances but if you're going to be in the woods hunting deer a fixed power scope would do you well.
BTW.......I despise adjustable objective scopes. I have a Leupold 6-18X40 on a heavy barrel 22-250 tack driver that I put together. The scope has a side focus and for shooting prairie dogs or ground squirrels it's great. But for hunting game that actually moves around who wants to be screwing around with the scope while trying to make the shot? Also, this whole tactical thing has me puzzled. I see guys who just have to have the tactical turrets on their scopes. Why? I'm not a Marine sniper with a spotter trying to make a kill at 1000 yards. I'm a hunter.
I really can't see the fancy reticles, either, although I have a Varmint reticle on the 6.5-18. Now I wonder why I spent the extra money as I never use it. I also have the Long Range reticle on the VXII 4-12X50 but this one makes a little better sense and I have used to to make a long range kill.
All of the above is my opinion. For me it makes good sense. I've used Leupold scopes since I was 19 and they've always served me well. One thing that sets them apart is their guarantee and outstanding customer service.
 
I've spent more than the last month looking for the "best scope" and have put in a great deal of time on it. I was set straight earlier by stonecreek who steered me away from larger objectives that I initially thought would give old eyes more light.
The advice you've been given already is straight. On thing I would add is not to be taken in by the talk of "best glass". Certainly nothing wrong with Nikon glass, Zeiss, Meopta, or many others. Plus today much glass is bought from third parties such as Schott, world class stuff, widely available and used by some of the better houses. I don't know who makes Leupold glass but it certainly is fine quality in the VX-3 line at least.
This is an era of planned obsolescence and created "need" by marketing staff. Often the best things are the simplest, no gimmicks, just straightforward quality. None of us (I hope ) are snipers, and unless you're into very long distance target work (3-9 doesn't cut it in that arena) the sophisticated reticles are overkill and add needless complexity.
Also, scope reviews are often not much more than ad copy, so take them for what they are, not very objective in most instances.
 
Pap: You're absoulutely right about the glass. High quality optical glass is relatively cheap these days because the methods of mass producing it have been so well developed. For that reason, nearly every manufacturer of mid-to-upper level scopes has access to and uses very good glass. That's why the difference in images produced by some scopes of very modest price and those of much higher price exhibit so little difference when measured by instrument rather than the subjective eye of a consumer.

The difference between manufacturers comes in how they use the glass in an optical gunsight. Unlike a regular telescope, you have to have a significant amount of eye relief in a riflescope. The riflescope also has to be much more shock (recoil) resistant than most telescopes, as well has having need for better sealing. While the size and shape of a telescope used just for "looking" is not too important, the size and shape of a riflescope must fit within very narrow parameters -- even the distance between the eye piece-turret-objective bell must be within a reasonable length in order to fit the mount spacing on most actions. Then there is the internal adjustment which is totally absent from normal telescopes but is a crtical component of a riflescope which must combine high-precision and great toughness. The list of features unique and critical to a riflescope goes on and on, but the bottom line is that I think we're very lucky to have so many good ones available at relatively low costs. Everyone has their favorite brand, and while each brand may have its strengths and weaknesses, there are lots of good choices.
 
One must not fail to remember that a chain (any system) can only be as strong as it's weakest link (component), be it scope, barrel, action, bullet, cartridge case, primer, powder, stock, bedding, trigger, nut attached to trigger, etc. Get my point? What good is a $3000 bench rest rifle witha $150 Tasco?

It boils down to how much of your investment in the rifle do you want to throw away or preserve by your choice of scope or any other part of your system (chain)?

AL W
 
Thanks for all the responses. After reading your responses I'm considering whether I need the new scope or not. There are several things I'm keeping in mind: 1) I've never had to take a shot at a deer past 150 yards 2) I've consistently hit stationary targets at 800 yards at the range with nothing more than a x3 magnification 3) Any scope I get may not be appreciably better unless I drop a mint on it. Looking at it like this I'm tempted to keep what I have or look at fixed mag scopes.
 
That's a pretty good argument you've made. At your hunting ranges, higher powers just aren't necessary and can actually be detrimental. If you're happy with your current scope, unless you plan on changing your shooting/hunting profile, why make any changes. Save the money and apply it to another Sako!
 
For fixed 'scopes have a look at the Swarovski 8x50 or 8x56's. Excellent performance, light, well built 'scopes and you won't lose any money on trade-in if it's kept in good condition. And aftermarket care second to none - they want you to use your 'scope rather than save up for repairs....... in the past they've replaced scratched tubes for me free of charge - without even asking.
Over the years they've re-tubed a couple of steel tubes to alloy and a rail mount body for a standard round tube for me, I think it cost me around $200 a go. Schmidt charged me $720 to re-tube a crimped PM2 tube last year!! (And no, it wasn't me that crimped the Schmidt! Lol!). Say no more.
And they've sent out replacement lens covers on a phone call, although they now ask me for the serial no when I ring for regular replacement lens caps for my 8.5x42 binos. Fair enough as they've had people re-selling them on the auction site.
Well, I guess you could say I'm a big fan of Swarovski but I take things as I find them and have gradually upgraded my 'scopes to variables over the years. Also got some Zeiss variables and the Conquest series always get good reviews.
That's me.
atb
Fizz
 
glennconnot
I'd like to suggest a relatively low cost, high-quality alternative to sticking with your used Nikon Buckmaster. Every couple of months Natchez Shooters Supply has Bushnell Elite 4200 scopes on sale. You can get a 2.5-10x40 Elite 4200 scope from them today for $309. If you wait a while and sign up for their email sales fliers you should be able to get a 3-9x40 Elite 4200 for around $200.
The Elite 4200 scopes have higher light transmission (95%) than your Buckmaster, are considered to be among the toughest scopes in any price class, have the Rainguard coating that gives you an advantage in rainy weather, and have a life-time guarantee. My son-in-law and I have purchased four Elite 4200 scopes (two of them from Natchez) in the last two years and we couldn't be more satisfied. I prefer them over my Leupold VX3 scopes.
I'm not associated with Bushnell or Natchez in any way. I just think the Bushnell Elite 4200's are a very good scope and are a great bargain when they are on sale.
P.S. Don't confuse the Elite 4200's with the Elite 3200's. The 3200's have only 90% light transmission.
 
Lots of good advise already posted. I used to shoot competitively and have been hunting and punching paper for a long time. The secret is what you are going to use the rifle for. I have quite a few scopes and bottom line is quality scopes in the same price range are too close to measure a difference on todays market. The advice already given on eye relief and ability to mount the scope for quick eye alignment is critical on a hunting rifle unless you always have a lot of time and a good rest. A practical hunting scope will most likely cost close to $400. and up. I have experirnce with :Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, Schmidt and Bender


Leupold, Nikon. Burris, Bushnell Elite
Nightforce, Unertl, Trijicon
All good scopes for the intended purpose. But here is my best advise. If you see no big advantage over your current scope, put the money you save in your wallet and start looking for another Sako. Good Luck
 
gspsmoke4 said:
...put the money you save in your wallet and start looking for another Sako.
My wife would kill me if I got another rifle, so I'm trying to make the best of the ones I have! :) For that matter I'm looking into what Sako/Tikka have in 25-06 and trying to convince myself I don't need a Remington R25 in .308, but the latter is a discussion for another forum...
Glenn
 
"Scope Opinions" ought to be "Scope Facts". I'd rather have facts than opinions as some opinions are simply worth nothing.

Some time ago I read on one of these Sako forums a posting by an armchair shooter who stated that he "wouldn't use a Bushnell on a .22", berating both Bushnell and the .22 rimfire cartridge. Obviously he knows nothing about either because, as you'll see from my experience, Bushnell makes a wonderful scope and my 2013 Anschutz with a Lilja barrel shooting in a sling from a prone position, will keep all the shots in the 1" X-ring at 100 yards, if I do my part. In other words, take your advice from a shooter and not a BS artist.

I shoot about 6000 rounds per year in smallbore three position and prone competitions and practice. In the any sight events (scope or metallic sights) I've been using a Bushnell 4200 (6X-24X) in competition for over ten years now and it has performed flawlessly. It is very bright and clear and continues to track well, meaning when I take a couple clicks, I get a couple clicks of movement. For the money, I consider it a great value. It has never needed a repair. Because of the 4200's robust qualities I purchased Bushnell 3200's for a couple of hunting rifles.

I also have several Leupold scopes but they do not get near the use that the 4200 gets so my personal experience with Leupolds is not nearly as complete as with the Bushnell. The made in the USA Leupold warranty is simple, if you own the scope and something goes wrong with it you simply send it to them for repair. At small bore rifle competitions, most of the scopes in use are Leupolds. The prone specialists use fixed powers while the 3 position shooters use variables.

Now for my opinions...Assuming you are using your rifle for hunting deer, elk, etc., your Nikon is probably all the scope you need to kill whatever you are shooting at. My advice to you is that you save your money and buy another Sako in something that kicks less! A .260 Remington or a 7mm-08 is really all the gun you need and they don't kick the snot out of you. You'll have more fun shooting and becoming a better shot is more important than spending $800 for a different scope!

Hope this is helpful.
 
If you are looking to purchase A Tikka you should be aware that Beretta is discontinuing the sale of the Hunter model of the SAKO 85 in the US. It was priced on the Classic and I guess most of the traffic went to the Classic. As I understand it the 2 models are identical except for the stock, most notably the Rosewood tip on the Classic. If you look at some of the auction sites you can find good prices on Hunter models from various dealers. I and another Sako Club member each bought one in 260 Rem for the best price by far that I have seen. We should probably cover this via PM if you are interested further. I have no interest in this other than as passing info on to a fellow member . This involves a very reputable upscale dealer, and the other member and I both had excellent purchase experiences.
 
Hello all.

Some good advise on Bushnell scopes. I have found over the years that I have had very good service from Bushnell scopes that were made in Korea. The last one I purchased was made in China and I do not like the clarity of the optics. I have always used Sako Optiloc mounts for the best results. I have had many years of excellent shooting from a 4200 on a Finnbear 7mm.

sakojim

Sunny Central Oregon

USA
 
Visited the local Gun Shop Saturday and came home with a Browning 78 in 7X57. The rifle had a Simmons scope mounted. The shop owner is a friend and we laughed about putting that scope on a good rifle. He knew the man who previously owned the rifle and knew he exchanged scopes before trading the gun just to get rid of the Simmons. Probably everyone on this forum is aware of this, but on the off chance
someone is like me and never looked thru a Simmons. Be advised: there is not enough room on this forum to tell you eveything that is wrong with this scope. I just purchased a Bushnell 4200 Elite. 3X9X40. I saw this scope recommended on this thread and have had good luck with it in the past. Unfortunatly the 3200 and 4300 Elite have been discontinued and only a few are still around.
 

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