Sako Rifles Afield (as intended)

Discussion in 'General Sako Discussions' started by Old Hippie, May 26, 2021.

  1. gowyo

    gowyo Sako Junkie

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    My son shot a couple Rockchucks with my 6PPC Vixen this Summer. It was a bit rougher than your 17 HMR.

     
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  2. Hunter25

    Hunter25 Active Member

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    Yup, a rock chuck. I used to use a 220 swift but over 20 years ago Colorado put a limit of 2 on them. So I enjoy stalking them with the 17.
    Always amazes me how devastating that little round is.
     
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  3. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Formerly known as bloorooster

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    Similar to our indigenous Woodchuck or as Deergoose calls them..Dirtswine! Summer time is always fun to scan hay fields and meadows, watching for that head to pop up. I used to hunt them with a .22 mag as a kid…then again…I hunted everything with that .22 mag back then.
    Bloo
     
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  4. deersako

    deersako Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the critter identification fellas.

    Such a diversity of animals on your continent.
     
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  5. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Back east they call them Ground Hogs or Wood Chucks. Pretty much the same animal. They can do a lot of damage to an alfalfa field or around building foundations.
     
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  6. marlin92

    marlin92 Well-Known Member

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    Nice 8pt.JPG Don't forget the other name of Whistle Pigs
     
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  7. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    "Rockchuck", "woodchuck", "ground hog" -- they're all closely related marmots. I understand that hunters in the Alps believe it bestows great good luck to shoot a marmot there.
     
  8. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Formerly known as bloorooster

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    Whistle P…!
    Wow!
    That’s a nice buck you got there Marlin!
    You snuck that one in there on me!
    Don’tcha just love shoving that sd card in and clicking through the shots real fast until one like that pops up! Trail cams are awesome!

    ……21 more days

    Bloo
     
  9. marlin92

    marlin92 Well-Known Member

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    Bloo just like Christmas morning every time I pick up the cards to look at them. We have 25 days before the start of Archery. Here are a couple more IMG_0158.JPG 08140382.JPG
     
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  10. Hunter25

    Hunter25 Active Member

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    Nice bucks,
    I've only killed about 5 whitetail bucks and a few does.
    All mule deer where I'm at.
     
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  11. marlin92

    marlin92 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Yeah I had to go to Colorado to get some mulies, none here in Pa. wish there were.
     
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  12. Spaher

    Spaher Well-Known Member

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    Season is almost Wide 30+.jpg upon us and now they just need to rub off the velvet. Not very tall tined but probably wider than 30"......
     
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  13. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Formerly known as bloorooster

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    Yeah..not very tall tines…(even if there is like 13 of them!!)
    What age do you think that one is?
    Man oh man! He is special!
    The bucks are peeling it off here, I haven’t gotten any photos to verify yet but I did find some saplings that were worked on fresh along a couple of trails. Set a couple more cams at those places!

    …19 more days! (Archery)

    bloo
     
  14. Spaher

    Spaher Well-Known Member

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    Believe he is 9.5 years old and was on ready to go last year but broke up early. At 8.5 yo he actually had more points but is one of those jousters where being wide is not a benefit. Hopefully, one of our hunters will take him next month before he does it again.
    WT deer tend to live longer down south than up north as they do not have the stressful and harsh long winter months to recover from after rutting. At 5.5 they are in prime shape and get really run down making recovery more difficult and some tend to decline at 6.5, but then bounce back at 7.5++ when they tend to more more of a shirker in breeding and fighting. If they don't improve during good range conditions they are removed to make room for those that do.
     
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  15. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Formerly known as bloorooster

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    Seriously good information! I understand completely, harsh winters and harsher poaching along with road kill seems to keep our bucks ages down considerably. 4.5 to 5.5 is considered old in my area. It’s hard to imagine finding a whitetail deer of either sex in WV above that age, tho I’m sure there are a few old smart deer in the deeper forests that have possibly never seen a human being, or vise versa. At least I like thinking that. :)
    Bloo
     
  16. Bucktote

    Bucktote Well-Known Member

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    Hi Spaher & Bloo,
    Texas folks seem to have enough land & good judgement to allow their deer to reach their potential. I killed a 10 point in Mc Millin Co. that was 7-1/2 @
    255 lbs (see pic @ left) Another at South Fork of the Brazos. Here in GA most deer are killed young as Bubba needs the meat & the numbers !! The best deer I have killed were from Texas and they had to be 5-1/2 yrs old + . I have tried to reason with my neighbors to let them grow, but I hear " if I don't shoot them smoebody else will " ??? Like trying to swim up Niagra Falls!!. Good luck this fall ya'll. B/T
     
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  17. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Formerly known as bloorooster

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    Absolutely true B/T … our state laws allow a total of 7 deer per hunter, per season. 2 in archery, 2 in rifle, 2 antlerless , and 1 Blackpowder. Per hunter! Roughly 300-350 lbs of venison. This is awesome , don’t get me wrong. Some will hunt within those limits, some will only maybe take one or two deer per year, but some will just keep hunting. The practice of shooting a buck, underling in stature, immature for harvest, then going from door to door to give it away to someone who eats more of it , or needs more of it. Which allows them to return to the woods next morning and go again. Some will brag of killing 8 - 10 deer on the first week of rifle season. Poachers aren’t just night hunters…but night hunters are the worst. I’ve drove into my hunting haunts more than once on opening morning to find the headless carcasses lying in the ditch line only 50 feet from where I park my truck. It’s just how it is now days.
    I used to get all tore up if I didn’t get a buck each year, hunting for big racks all season, lowering the bar every day or two, until , by the end of season all it needed was 3” of legal antlers. I’ve matured vastly from those days to where I haven’t pulled the trigger on a buck deer for years, The buck has to be bigger than what I’ve harvested in the past or it walks. Now , granted it may walk 200 yards around the hill and be shot by someone else, and that’s ok, I held to my own with it.
    But enough of that…
    Let’s talk about the best method of aging a mature buck!
    First , I assumed that the antler bases showed the older mature buck, but soon learned that genetics doesn’t really work it that way. Then I judged by head size, shape and color ( grey means old) but that’s not accurate either. I understand about the teeth but it’s hard to get a big 8 point to open his mouth and let you make those assessments. I learned of late to pay closer attention to body size and the bucks gut. I guess buck are like us, sorta, the older they get..the more of a pot belly hangs underneath. The younger bucks are still flat bellied. It makes sense to me.
    I’d like to hear from you guys , your ideas on this little side tangent of Sako’s Afield.

    Bloo
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
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  18. marlin92

    marlin92 Well-Known Member

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    Here in Pa allowed one buck with antler restrictions from 3 or 4 pts on a side depending where you hunt. To shoot a doe you need to get a seperate license, but you can buy as many as you want as long as you do not have more than 6 unfilled tags in your poession at a time. The number of available doe license vary in the different management areas. The area I hunt there is quit a bit of poaching and trespassing - it's sad. I agree with Bloo about body size but also looking at the face for the Roman Nose of the older bucks, also the darker hair patch between the antlers.
     
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  19. Hunter25

    Hunter25 Active Member

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    I get one deer tag in colorado. Occasionally not even that where I live. It just depends on what season I drew. I've shot some big bucks and passed on quite a few. But I've also shot some small ones.
    Overall I'm just out to have a good time.
    Mostly I hunt for myself athlete l after work and days off.
    I put more effort into helping my 2 kids.
    My son's girlfriend got her first last year. And a pretty decent one at that.
    My grandson will be in his first deer hunt this year. As a youth I managed to get him 2 tags. A doe tag in the draw and a buck tag someone drew and didn't pay for. But for him any buck will do.
    Taking him to Texas in December also for a whitetail hunt. Could only afford him so I'll just be helping.
     
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  20. Spaher

    Spaher Well-Known Member

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    Old Hippie (Bloo), my opinion on your inquiry on aging and our experiences for on the hoof estimates. The body size is certainly a factor but complicated by nutrition and region/area as well as time of the year. A mature buck can lose up to 45 lbs during the rut and depletes its fat setting up a higher mortality rate if a harsh Jan, Feb & March. However, nutrition or lack of, at a young age being the first 18 months can affect the overall size or phenotype of a middle age and at maturity. This is often noticeable with shorter legs and necks when next to other animals. I believe the survival of fawns whose mothers died early on can affect their eventual size. Generally speaking an animal in prime condition will have an opportunity to show it via antler development, by example a 5 1/2 yo buck is considered mature and is probably its peak rutting, meaning chasing harder than other ages and you often see a decline in antler size (inches) at the next season but should or could bounce back and exceed the 5 1/2 size via longer beams and mass if range conditions good or equal. In aging a post mature buck will sometimes have slight variations in hair color behind the front leg or stomach areas. Bulging stomach can be deceptive as need know if it is pre or post rut and in post mature bucks(really old) they start looking like young bucks as leaner but the rump gives them away as it is flatter or not as pronounced (flat but rather than rounded). Roman nose can be an indicator of age but not all old bucks get roman noses, although more often in Mule deer and can also be from broken cartilage or damage from fighting on middle age deer. One thing I look for are the folds in front of the ear as bucks with plenty of age get 5-6 folds or wrinkles and can confirm your age estimates. Body size & gut can be an indicator as muscle stretch with time or years does affect the appearance but as always an exception can exist. Observation and scouting when you have different animals intermixing makes aging and identifying sizes a lot easier rather than a single solitary animal and the more you look carefully, the more you see.

    I will take the liberty of attaching a draft (with permission) of a chapter on a whitetail book published by B&C that I was asked to write about 8 years ago (2013) with the following caveats:
    Some of my opinions have changed based on field experience in the last 8 years; I disavow the Remington reference as it was based on rifles as tools and their cost and cheaper ammo a factor & acreage has changed. We do not allow archery hunting as we do not have the time and do not tolerate the wound losses. We do not allow rifles that are not accurate as nothing worse than a bad shot to the animal and resulting time tracking and cleaning up mistakes. The predator population and hog population is not discussed but we have now dedicated year round predator removal and at a minimum for two periods of each year where 99% of the feral hogs are removed. Additional note, the notion that "culling" is not effective based on recent opinions is incorrect as a good management plan implemented violently on a large and consistent scale does have an impact on the quality and preferences on the remaining deer populations. Perhaps a bit much and winded but thought I would share.
    (***21 page chapter too large to download but I will try to break it up for sharing )
     
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