Sako L46 Männlicher 22 Hornet

Discussion in 'Sako Mannlichers and Carbines' started by gary smith, Sep 16, 2019.

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  1. gary smith

    gary smith Member

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    I have a real nice l46 22 Hornet Mannlicher with peep sight I plan to sell online. Which website do you folks recommend? I know of GunsINternational and Gunbroker. I've tried to attach a couple of photos for drool effect but am unable to post using the "URL" thing. Any help in this regard will enable me to post if anyone wants to see the beauty.

     

  2. Rocky

    Rocky Well-Known Member

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    If your wanting to sell it here, I'm interested.
     
  3. Rocky

    Rocky Well-Known Member

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    PM sent.
     
  4. gary smith

    gary smith Member

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    I just listed this cute little rifle on Gunbroker. Plenty of pictures there now.
     
  5. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/832756709

    Unfortunately, the bottom metal is later than the gun. The serial number dates it to 1955 and it does show in the records as a Hornet Mannlicher. However, the bottom metal is not of the stamped variety which would have been produced in 1955 but is forged, which was introduced in the L46 much later in the late 1950's. The seller will want to point this out in the GB description.
     
  6. robinpeck

    robinpeck Well-Known Member

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    I understood that Sako had a replacement policy once the forged triggerguards became available...you just sent in your stamped version and they sent you the forged one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  7. Paul B.

    Paul B. Well-Known Member

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    @stonecreek Just curious, what are the physical/visual differences between the stamped and forged bottom metals on the L46?
     
  8. gary smith

    gary smith Member

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  9. gary smith

    gary smith Member

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    So Stonecreek can you respond to Paul B.'s comment regarding the factory availability of replacement bottom metal? I do not have access to the records that you apparently have and am unaware of any replacement of the bottom metal. I did a bit of research online and found the updated metal was available in 1958 but no serial number was given for the change. Do you have the serial number documentation for the change? You do realize (I think) that it is factory bottom metal on the rifle. You also see there is no evidence on the screws of being damaged by unskilled replacement. Further you do see the serial number clearly displayed as is the bottom metal. Nothing is being hidden here. Again, please verify for other readers of this thread whether or not the factory made that bottom metal available and/or if you are unaware of that. You are taking a shot at my attempt to get a fair and competitive price for this rifle and you may not posses all of the facts. I appreciate you confirming that the serial number for the rifle does conform with factory records of a Hornet Mannlicher made in 1955.
     
  10. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    A picture is worth a thousand words, so take a look at these Gunbroker offerings (selected at random) of stamped bottom metal:
    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/821075359
    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/822842174

    Of course, the rifle in question offered by Gary has the forged bottom metal, so you can refer to its photos for the forged version.

    I've never heard of Robin Peck's suggestion that updated bottom metal was made available for exchange from Sako. This would have involved tens of thousands of L46's made between 1946 and circa 1958, so it would seem strange that so few pre-1958 Sako owners took advantage of such a policy, if one existed. An exchange program would have to be carried out through the importer in each country. Perhaps the Canadian importer did this but not Firearms International, the U.S. importer? As I say, I've never heard of such an exchange program, but perhaps there was one and it would be extremely interesting to have information on it. Perhaps someone may know of some details and will inform us.

    The bottom metal on Gary's gun is certainly genuine Sako, there is no question of that. I very sincerely doubt that it is original to the gun, although we never say "never" when it comes to Sakos, so potential buyers must judge issues like this for themselves. Someone who has strong enough collector interest to bid over $3,000 certainly is capable of making their own assessment and it is doubtful that they will be influenced by whatever opinions of others might be offered.
     
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  11. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    As far as the bottom metal exchange program goes, "I'd like to see physical evidence of that"!! I doubt the bottom metal issue is going to make any difference in the sale price of this rifle. The battle has already begun. The winner will be whoever has the deepest pockets & wants it the most. Whether that establishes it's "true market value" is a matter of opinion. Will be fun to watch.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  12. robinpeck

    robinpeck Well-Known Member

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    I'll try to find where I read about the bottom metal exchange program.
     
  13. topgear

    topgear Sako-addicted

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    I don’t know about an exchange program but here in oz I’ve seen old advertisements for the later machined bottom metal which was available to purchase as a part to upgrade the old stamped bottom metal. So it was something offered by sako distributors here in Australia for a cost.

    If you really wanted the older stamped bottom metal I’m sure you’d have no problems getting a swap with someone.
     
  14. Paul B.

    Paul B. Well-Known Member

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  15. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Sage words. The current bid is somewhat higher than I would have guessed, regardless of whether the bottom metal is original.

    It appears to me that a genuine "collector market" has developed in Sakos. The selling prices (not asking prices) of run-of-the-mill used Sako hunting rifles in common calibers has been fairly static for a couple of years, making them a relative bargain for the hunter and shooter. However, the prices commanded by scarcer/older models and calibers seems to have risen significantly. That tells me that there are quite a few people who are willing to pay a premium for "collectible" Sakos.
     
  16. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Seems two markets have evolved! One for the common Sakos in common calibers that we see for sale in abundance & one for the truly rare models in rare calibers. The common market is declining, as are all wood stocked, blued steel, bolt actions while the "rare" ones are gaining value exponentially. This may come back to haunt those giving north of $5000 for a Hornet. What does that make a Bee or 25-20 or 7x33 worth? Ask the Winchester collectors how things have worked out for them. Can you say "market collapse"!!! The number of Sako buyers out there is tiny compared to the Winchester crowd, so if I had any of these rare birds I would be selling now while they are "hot"!! Nobody ever makes a mistake making a profit!! Just my two cents.
     
  17. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Your statement may be true from a purely profit/financial perspective, but collectors of any type are generally not so much interested in the market value of their collectibles but rather in the aesthetic value of owning and possessing the collectible. Very few are speculative investors -- because with any knowledge of the collectible market investors know that it is a dicey place to put your money -- whether it is Andy Warhol paintings or Lalique Figurines. Collectors may "play" with the financial side of collecting, but they know not to put money into it that has to enjoy financial appreciation. If you can't afford to lose some of your investment then you shouldn't be in "collecting".

    I would agree that the prices of common hunting Sakos are not keeping pace with inflation right now, and historically have depreciated, like any item you use, but their depreciation is very slow compared to almost any other consumer item. I think they have the potential to appreciate a little faster than inflation in the next few years simply because almost no one is making high-quality wood stocked hunting rifles and those that do are pricing them at two to three times the cost of a fine used Sako from the 60's through 80's. As the "black plastic boom-boom-boom" gun fad fades and the 20- and 30-something buyers of those guns mature, then they (or many of them) will be turning to the classic, well-made hunting rifles that their fathers and grandfathers liked to shoot.
     
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  18. Rocky

    Rocky Well-Known Member

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    I've done some research about this and I have seen other Mannlicher Hornets with both stamped and forged metal. We've all heard that Sako would put parts in a bin and how they got pulled out was anyone's guess. So probably during assembly an earlier receiver got built with the later forged bottom metal.

    If I was going to bid on this rifle, I would bid with confidence.
     
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  19. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Rocky, it is true that you'll often find earlier parts on later guns. However, in this case the rifle was inspected in 1955, but bottom metal of the forged type was not made until sometime around 1958. A rifle which left the factory in 1955 couldn't have left with 1958 parts on it -- such parts would have to have been added later.

    On the other hand, most people consider the forged bottom metal superior to the earlier stamped bottom metal, so an individual buyer may value having the later bottom metal higher than having the original bottom metal. Thus far 12 individual buyers have bid on the gun and raised its current bid to closer to 4K than 3K, so it appears that those buyers are presumably not too concerned over whether the bottom metal is original to the rifle or an "improvement".
     
  20. CVCOBRA1

    CVCOBRA1 Well-Known Member

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    $5125.00.......How many of you guys that have one of these are willing to let them go now....LOL
     
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