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Sako a11 243

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

iain

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
2
Hi Guys, just arrived. I have been a keen shotgun shooter for many years and have just recently taken up stalking. Quite keen to buy a rifle, probably 243,and have been offered a Sako A11. No idea what age it is although I know it,s long out of production. It,s quite hard to get info on it,s value and whether it,s a good buy compared to, say a brand new cheaper rifle. I would greatly apreciate anyone,s views. Iain
 
iain,
Welcome to the forum. I say that any used Sako is better than any "new cheaper rifle", period. In this case, I would say you really check out the bore, because the .243 tended to be hard on barrels.
On the price, it's hard to say. Are there any pictures available that you can share? Are you in the States? If so, there should be an import stamp on the bottom of the barrel just forward of the stock.
As a general guide, look at the "Serial Numbers From Sako's Site" right above the Recent Posts Section. You will be able to narrow it 's production date down a little from that.
That's a start. Really have to see the condition to give you an idea on the general selling price range.
Regards,
S-A
 
Hi S-A, Thanks for your response. I live in Scotland and unfortunately I don,t have any pics to post. I,ve had a good look over it and, although I,m not qualified, I would say that it,s in very, very good, origonal condition. There is one small score on the stock and several very small corrosion marks on the barrel and machine area. I am assured it has had fairly light use and judging by the overall condition, I would be inclined to accept that. The chequering is not overly worn and the wood is a very dark, attractive walnut. The action appears to be quite tight and smooth. When you mentioned that the barells of this model were suspect, how can I check this and what should I look for? I have been able to get the serial No. and, from the Sako site, it was made between 1985 and 1989. The other comments are L579 and "CNC machined" . Not sure what this means and I suppose I,m more concerned about the quality than the value. I imagine the value is relative to the region. I am only likely to buy one gun and I would rather invest in quality, even if I have to spend a little in due course. I am quite particular and would prefer to buy a gun for the long term rather than chop and change. Hope I haven,t bored you with all the detail but I would apreciate your comments. The gun comes with a Swarovski,Habicht 6+42 scope and has been described as a "classic"..not sure if that was a superior finish or not The asking price is xA3975. Again, thanks for your response, Iain
 
iain,
You would check the bore at a gunsmith who possesses a bore light or scope. I'm sure his learned opinion could tell you the shape it is in. He would be looking a the wearing of the lands and grooves in the barrel, and signs of "pitting". It is common to see them here in what we call a "shot out" condition. the good side is that one can replace a barrel of this type and it not be too much trouble. From the sounds of the description of the action, that is one reason why Sako is known and desired.
CNC machining basically means parts have been computer cut instad of hammered or made in a mold. CNC allows for more tight angles to be achieved. The down side for a manufacturer is that it creates a lot of waste whereby, in say, hammer forging, nearly all the stock metal is used.
L579 is the designation of the action, and so Americans (and others) would not be confusing Sako for a Japanese rifle, Sako then attached the name of Forrester to that era. Vixen to the short action and Finnbear to the long actions. Sako did not want to do this for the reason above. I read this in a book "Sako 1921 - 1971".The scope is of good quality and should be bright and clear when looking through it. Consider the distances you are most likely to hunt at, and determine if it would be under powered or over powered for what you intend to do.
Normally, I would say most people do not buy a rifle with a scope because they have their own preferences about optics. However ,if it suits you, and you have no scope presently, then there is no problem.
Now, at 975 Pound Sterling I would consider that a little high for a US market equivalent - however demand and availability as well as no idea of the pricing of firearms in Scotland makes it hard for me to say. My general rule is a firearm is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
Aside form the caveat for the barrel I would say this is a good caliber for your area, and just keep in mind that if you are going to shoot a lot not to be shocked if later down the road you may have a barrel replacement staring you in the face. Ask your gunsmith his opinions on the rifles barrel life. If it's in good condition, it could last many, many years if you maintain it properly and shoot quality ammunition.
Let us know how everything works out.
Regards,
S-A
 
As others have said putting a price on a gun you can't see is difficult to impossible. I can tell you that the Sako A11 is a fine rifle and the 243 a desireable caliber for small to medium size game. As far as throat erosian and the 243 are concerned I must disagree. Unless you are a target shooter and plan to shoot thousands of rounds per year it is not a consideration. A 220 Swift may be a different story. I have owned the L579 Pre Garcia version of your rifle for 35yrs and put many rounds through it. With proper care and cleaning it should last a lifetime. Mine still puts three shots into a half inch group at 100yds.

Good luck
 
kgallese,
I guess its all subjective considering the user. I have a .220 Swift that I could say the same for. And, In all honesty, I have never owned a .243 because some of my "shooter" friends have casually referred to them as "barrel burners". Is the wearing down of the lands and grooves the same as "throat erosion" in all cases? They must go together, I guess. I've never worn out (melted down) a barrel except in the military and I didn't have to fix it. How do the "throat" and lands and grooves wear out other than for the obvious reason of thousands of rounds and not cleaning it? Do barrels with lower sulfur content do better, or is it the type of bullet and propellant that is the culprit? Since some of my HB's are getting as old as I am I need to know if it's my rifle or my progressive lenses:wink2:. Probably both, huh?
S-A (Actually, I don't shoot with my glasses on, and I would really like to know what cartridges or calibers are not barrel friendly)
 
S-A, kgallese,and iain, I have heard in my circles, long ago, that the .220 swift,and the .22-250 were the "barrel burners" more so with the .220 swift. Everyone I know loves their .243s and I've never heard say of the .243 falling into that catagory. I've pondered this of late because I have 2 L579's in .243 and I want to get the best out of them a I can. Could it be, perhaps that older twist rates in combination with modern loads (not including tailored handloads),resulting in poor accuracy, leads some to "believe" the barrel is shot out? I understand that a bore scope will verify wear on lands and grooves, how many of the millions of shooters go thru this to confirm,but instead sell or trade the "shot out" rifle at the local gun show. Proper care and cleaning are paramount, this I know, and my house reeks of Shooters Choice after a range trip ( I kinda like the smell my self, my wife disagrees) hopefully mine will out last me!-Bloo
PS. iain....an AII is a great rifle, the lionshead says so, fair price is what you can afford and is often more than you thought you'd spend. It will bring a smile to your face on every hunt, and on to your children and they're children if cared for.
 
Bloo,
Good points. Thanks for adding your input. My Swift is a tack driver. I'll give kgallese the benefit of the doubt for now, though, since he's got the hands on experience. That' what we're here for.
I'll consider myself lucky, then.. I guess I should evaluate my sources better (who are rough on their guns at the range) and if it was a real issue to me should go out and get a .243. Almost bought one in a Mannlicher last year. Went back to the shop to get it, and it was gone.. Had a great finish on it, even though a full stock is not my cup of tea, I could have lived with this one, though. Maybe someday if the right one comes along, I'll get one.
I'll still stand by my rifle examining tips before buying any used rifle. If anyone is going to burn out a barrel of mine - I'll do it myself:wink2:
S-A
 
If any of you guys are hi volume shooters and worried about burning out your barrel, I would highly recommend using some moly or lubalox coated bullets. I think it also makes cleaning easier.
 
One last point on "barrel burnout" which is not really a very descriptive term. If you take your favorite rifle to a gunsmith with the complaint of accuracy loss the first thing he will do is give the barrel a thorough cleaning followed by an examination with a bore scope. If the barrel checks out well he moves to bedding, scope, mounts, etc. Barrel erosian and accuracy loss start as a roughness just ahead of the chamber which cannot be cleaned to it's original shine like the rest of the bore. It is sometimes refered to as "carbon evacuation" giving the appearance or small cracks. Many shooters believe that stainless steel barrels last longer than blued steel barrels due to the lower carbon content. The further down the barrel you move to the muzzle the less damage you find. If lands and groove are worn out you missed barrel erosian a long time ago. Certain cartridges have a reputation for this kind of damage due to a lot of hot gas being forced through a small hole, to put it simply. I believe the 243 may just be on the outside edge of this list of cartridges.
 
Good description of barrel burn out in the previous post, you see it alot when the terms barrelburner and overbore are thrown around. Some will argue that the 243 falls into that category, truth is that in the scheme of things it's just not that bad of a chambering as to barrel life, compared to some we shoot. Plenty of guys out there getting 2K rounds on their rifle and it's still dropping them Whitetails like a bag of hammers. Now if your one of those guys that goes to the range with 100 rounds and proceeds to jackhammer them down range, yep it's a barrel burner and you will lose accuracy. If your a hunter and recreational shooter frankly the rifle will probably outlive you, paper puncher and like to compete with it then that 2" of roughness is a concern. The rifle laying on the feral pig by my siganture is a 6mmAI L579 custom 1-12tw and it's a barrel burner, everyone tells me so! Rifle's pushing 8-900 rounds now, 70gr BK's touching 4000fps, not sure where the landes are, can't find them. I now just load to fit the magazine. Changed powder and bullet lots so took it to the range, still shoots sub .5" even with all that jump. I do realize that the level of accuracy I demand in a rifle will mean that pretty soon I will be looking at either setting it back 2" or rebarreling it. For the average shooter it's just not an issue except between their ears. Bullet coatings will help, I use WS2 on 17 & 20's, as well as a proper boreguide and cleaning technique. Most gunsmiths will tell you that barrel heat caused by too many rounds without a cool down and improper cleaning will ruin accuracy long before you shoot out the barrel. Had one smith tell me that cleaning the rifles he's given to improve accuracy, fixes about half of them.
 
I have a .243 AII for sale right now in the For Sale thread. Take a look at it and see if you would like it. It is extremely clean, no bore problems as it only has about 100 rds through the barrel.
 

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