rifle brass

Discussion in 'Hand loading your Sako' started by atticus, Sep 3, 2016.

  1. atticus

    atticus Active Member

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    Recently, I was sorting some twice fired winchester brass in 222 and 243, I noticed a large amount of split necks. About a 20 percent loss rate out of 40 piecesof each caliber. This brass was recent bought, about a month and a half ago. Has anyone else found the new winchester brass is lacking. I checked some 3006 loads with new winchester brass, and it looks like a split starting at the mouth of the case.Has anyone found new winchester brass to have issues? Ive checked on line and some are saying the quality has dropped. I made an order for some norma brass

     

  2. SansSouci

    SansSouci Active Member

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    Yep. W-W quality control seems to have vanished.

    I just said to myself, "Screw it!" Then I bought Norma brass. I think that from here on out, I'm going with Norma brass.
     
  3. atticus

    atticus Active Member

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    Im going the same route, not wasting my money on winchester brass again
     
  4. Cali

    Cali Well-Known Member

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    I loaded some new Winchester 222 brass and struggled to seat the primers on about four per twenty. Picked some Norma which is alway high quality but most were a bit short for new brass. I'll try Lapua next, also high rated brass.
     
  5. David_S

    David_S Well-Known Member

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    I used to use Winchester brass in my 7x57 without problems but then tried new Winchester brass in my 75 Finnlight 270WSM. It started splitting at the neck after the first reloading. I spoke to the owner of a local gunshop who just laughed and said everyone was having problems with the Winchester especially in WSMs. He recommended Norma although more expensive. I took his advice and have had no problems since in either my 85 or 75 WSMs.

    For my 260 Finnlight I used Lapua straight off and have had no problems and I have switched to Norma in the old 7x57.

    Both Lapua and Norma are good.

    I also had problems with a batch of Winchester primers so have given up on those too. It's a great shame about Winchester but once a company loses its reputation it is hard to get it back.
     
  6. atticus

    atticus Active Member

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    I have received the first order of norma, im interested in finding out how it does. Im done with winchester brass. Went through my 3006 loaded that was done on new winchester brass. Out of 50 loads, found 11 with a very slight split in the neck. Broke them all down, ive got to find some time to test out some loads with the norma brass.
     
  7. dodgyrog

    dodgyrog Well-Known Member

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    Don't Norma make the Lapua brass - I think they do.
     
  8. atticus

    atticus Active Member

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    I believe you are correct, ive read that ruag owns them all, but I may be mistaken
     
  9. David_S

    David_S Well-Known Member

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    From Ruag's website
    But no mention of Lapua. It appears Lapua is owned by the Nammo Group which is 50% owned by "the Norwegian Government represented by the Norwegian Ministry of Trade, Industry and Fisheries (50 percent) and the Finnish Defense and Aerospace Group, Patria Oyj (50 percent)." according to Nammo's website.

    But that does not actually state where Lapua ammunition is made. Norma might make it much as ADI make Hodgdon powders. Anyone know for sure? Just curious.
     
  10. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Lapua ammunition/components are made in Finland, near the town of Lapua. Norma ammunition comes from Amotfors, Sweden. From Wikipedia:

    Norma Precision is a Swedish manufacturer of ammunition located in Åmotfors, in the province of Värmland, just 20 km off the Norwegian border. It is commonly referred to as simply Norma.

    Lapua State Cartridge Factory
    Lapua is also home to a large ammunition factory, which commenced operations in 1927 as the State Cartridge Factory. This factory was the primary supplier of ammunition to the Finnish Army during the Winter War and World War II. An explosion occurred in a warehouse of this factory on 13 April 1976, resulting in the deaths of 40 employees, mainly females. Sixty children lost a parent in the disaster. This is the worst accidental disaster in Finland's modern history. After the explosion, the factory was relocated 5 kilometres (3 mi) away from the town centre and continues production today as part of the Nordic Ammunition Group (Nammo) as Nammo Lapua. The original site of the factory and the surviving buildings are now an arts centre, a library and a theater.

    Sako also produces brass and ammunition in Finland. It is certainly possible that the two companies swap some components or contract with one another from time to time, but I am not informed as to when and whether this happens.
     
  11. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Norma doesn't make Lapua brass. Norma does, however, make brass for Nosler & possibly others. Remington & others make brass for Hornady. Lapua, however, makes it's own brass & ammo & it is of the highest quality I have ever used. If you are a reloader, once you use Lapua brass you can't go back to using anything else. Wouldn't surprise me if Lapua made brass & ammo for Sako, but I have no evidence of that. Oh, BTW, there is no such thing as Winchester as a company. The firearms that are marketed under the "Winchester" moniker are made & sold by FN Herstal of Belgium. The "Winchester" ammo & components sold under that name are made & sold by the Olin Corp. What we think of as the "Winchester Co." hasn't existed for many years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  12. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Weatherby branded ammunition has been made by Norma for decades.

    Norma brass, while high in quality, does have a reputation for having softer heads than other brands of brass. Norma has defended this by saying that the softer head is still adequate for 60,000 CUP, so head expansion with Norma brass indicates that you have an overload. That might be true with cartridges with a somewhat lower SAAMI maximum pressure and in weaker actions. But it is the brass case that is the weak link in modern turnbolts, so having a soft head limits your working pressure range, perhaps below what your rifle is perfectly capable of handling on a sustainable basis. Other brands, like Lapua, will tolerate an occasional load of greater-than-intended pressure without expanding the primer pocket in instances in which Norma brass will be rendered unsuitable for reloading.

    I have a stockpile of .222 brass from the old Herter's. Its boxes are marked "Made in Finland". So I have to assume that it was sourced either from Lapua or Sako. Whichever, it is fine brass which has exhibited no age cracking and reloads beautifully.
     
  13. atticus

    atticus Active Member

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    Thank you, gentleman for the info, I dont believe I will be going back to winchester, or remington brass. I will source lapua brass. Thank you, Stonecreek for the info on the soft head issue, I will keep an eye on that.
     
  14. LittleMissThumper

    LittleMissThumper Member

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    There is quite a lot of branding going on in the ammunition industry. Sako have sourced brass from several different companies, including Lapua and Norma. I believe they use Norma exclusively now. Much like the Bofors powders are sold by Norma, Alliant, Rottweil and others.

    Side note since we're in the reloading section: If you only find load data for Norma MRP or 203B these use the same reference powders as Reloder-22 and Reloder-15 respectively, so you can safely work up your load using the Norma data.
     

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