Sako Finland Resource to Date A III Carbine?

[MaineMan2]

Please let me start with a couple of questions. How can I figure out when this rifle was made? Are old Sako instruction manuals available anywhere? Is there a torque spec for the action screws? Where can I find basic disassembly instructions?

I went to Cabelas last week to see a Ruger M77 in a Mannlicher (full length) stock and happened to see this rifle in the same cabinet:


I really liked the look of it. More importantly, it comes up to my shoulder very naturally and I love the feel of the stock and the forend in my hands. The operation of the action is both smooth and very solid. So I bought this instead of the other rifle.

On top of the barrel is “Sako Cal. 270”. Left side of the barrel says “Made in Finland”. Along the left side of the receiver it says “A III“ followed by the serial number (5595xx), then a symbol I can’t make out and something that looks like “PV” or “RV” with the letters combined. The last 3 digits of the serial number are hand etched on the underside of the bolt handle. Here’s that symbol with the RV:



Before I returned to buy it today, I researched it as best I could. Was the A III only made 1978-1981? I believe that the “short tang” is one of the A III characteristics but don’t know what other significance that might have.

Reading here tonight, is the long part (right side of bolt) that does not rotate with the bolt the “shroud“? Is its sole purpose to control gas from an over-pressure case? When the bolt is closed, it covers the opening where the extractor sits.

Looking at the action, it appears to be a push feed with a manual ejector (part of bolt release actually). Is that correct? It feels like most of the cocking occurs as the bolt is opened - right?

Bottom line I usually know a lot more about a firearm before I buy it. After a bit of haggling and a 10% discount, I got it for a fair price. Plus I used a bunch of credit card points so it turned into an irresistible deal.

 

[gunner620]

Lot of questions! I'll send you a private message and if you wish you can give me a call and we can discuss your rifle and you can take notes.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

You pretty much got it right in your research & I want to commend you on your efforts, as most newcomers just post questions, demand an answer & leave. The "Lion's Head" is a Finnish proof mark & the RV is the inspector's stamp. The bolt "guide" (on the right side of the bolt body) will help deflect gases somewhat, but it also helps "guide" the bolt when cycling. The bolt "shroud" to deflect possible escaping gases is on the rear of the bolt over the cocking piece & is the only difference between the AIII action & the L61R action. Your dates of 1978-81 are about as close as you can get to a production date without a hang tag, as there are no factory records for that time period I am aware of. Serial numbers by themselves are of little help, as Sako did not build rifles in sequential order. The last few numbers etched on the bolt handle is to help keep the bolt with the action it was headspaced with during production. I'm sure gunner620 can fill in all the details. Welcome to our club!

 

[MaineMan2]

Lot of questions! I'll send you a private message and if you wish you can give me a call and we can discuss your rifle and you can take notes.

gunner was very generous with his time and answered many of my questions. Thank you!

 

[icebear]

You have an excellent hunting rifle there. I have one that is identical except it's a .30-06. Accuracy is amazing - it consistently shoots sub-MOA and has posted several half-inch groups with handloads. Which brings me to a recommendation - handload for it. Factory ammo is loaded for maximum power in a 24" barrel. In a 20" carbine, factory ammo will give you a lot of noise, flash and muzzle blast because unburnt powder will detonate in front of the muzzle. The solution is to reload with a moderate load of a fast-burning powder, so it will all burn in the barrel. I use IMR 3031 for my .30-06 load, but that may or may not work in a .270. My carbine has very little noise, flash, and muzzle blast with the handloads compared to factory loads. Good luck and I hope your rifle shoots as well as mine.

 

[MaineMan2]

You have an excellent hunting rifle there. I have one that is identical except it's a .30-06. Accuracy is amazing - it consistently shoots sub-MOA and has posted several half-inch groups with handloads. Which brings me to a recommendation - handload for it. Factory ammo is loaded for maximum power in a 24" barrel. In a 20" carbine, factory ammo will give you a lot of noise, flash and muzzle blast because unburnt powder will detonate in front of the muzzle. The solution is to reload with a moderate load of a fast-burning powder, so it will all burn in the barrel. I use IMR 3031 for my .30-06 load, but that may or may not work in a .270. My carbine has very little noise, flash, and muzzle blast with the handloads compared to factory loads. Good luck and I hope your rifle shoots as well as mine.

What you say about the shorter barrel makes sense. I looked at a nice, older Ruger No. 1 with a Mannlicher stock chambered in .30-06 and passed on it largely because of the shorter barrel.

I intend to hand load for this rifle. H-4831SC has worked very nicely for me in a sporterized Mauser 98 chambered in .270, but that is a slow burning powder. The closest to IMR 3031 I’ve found so far is data for IMR 4064 - something I don’t have. I’ll keep digging. H-4895 I have but it doesn’t look ideal. It’s interesting that a virtually identical case just necked down 10% has such different powder choices.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

It’s interesting that a virtually identical case just necked down 10% has such different powder choices.

Keep in mind the diameter & length of the bore, not just the case, is part of the "combustion chamber", so to speak, & affects pressure.

 

[icebear]

Keep in mind the diameter & length of the bore, not just the case, is part of the "combustion chamber", so to speak, & affects pressure.

An excellent point! Go down to .25-06 or up to .35 Whelen and you'd have totally different powder menus. I've never needed a short-barrel load for a .270 so can't help with specifics.

 

[stonecreek]

I intend to hand load for this rifle. H-4831SC has worked very nicely for me in a sporterized Mauser 98 chambered in .270, but that is a slow burning powder. The closest to IMR 3031 I’ve found so far is data for IMR 4064 - something I don’t have. I’ll keep digging. H-4895 I have but it doesn’t look ideal. It’s interesting that a virtually identical case just necked down 10% has such different powder choices.

Tests have shown that the powder which gives the most velocity in a "normal length" rifle barrel typically also yields the most velocity in a shortened barrel (at least down to the legal 16"). However, Icebear is certainly correct that a faster powder (which necessarily means using less powder) will provide less muzzle blast.

H4895 may not yield the highest velocties in a .270, but it is a versatile powder which acts consistently even with greatly reduced loads. Loaded to similar pressures, it will probably provide about 50-100 fps less than your H4831 loads, but giving up that velocity for a less obnoxious blast probably will only make a difference to you and not to whatever deer or similar objective your muzzle is pointed toward.

 

[icebear]

I don't have a chronograph so I can't comment on the loss of velocity when changing to a faster powder. However, I did notice a major improvement in accuracy in my Sako .30-06 carbine. I had previously loaded some rounds with a moderate load of IMR 4895 for low-recoil plinking with a Winchester 1895 carbine. I wasn't happy with them in the Sako, so I tried 3031 and that proved the magic formula for accuracy.

And as Stonecreek notes, 100 fps of velocity doesn't mean diddly in terms of its effect on a whitetail.