Questions Regarding Scope Rail Dimensions and Loose Scope Mounts

Discussion in 'General Sako Discussions' started by EVR, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    457
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Arizona
    In reviewing this thread, I don't see anything about Warne rings. No longer made but frequently found on eBay, Gunbroker, etc., these clamp directly to the Sako dovetails and were available in fixed or QD versions. I have found them to be ideal for the long action Sakos. The mounts index on the front and rear of the ejection port, allowing more flexibility in mounting than a regular Sako ring. I do not think there would be a problem with .375 recoil - Warne knows what they are doing. Here's a photo of my .30-06 AIII carbine with a 1.75-6x Leupold VXIII in Warne QD rings. The slight overhang of the rings over the ejection port is due to the indexing tabs.


    AIII Carbine 30-06 2.JPG
     
    Rogan Kinnear likes this.

  2. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    18
    Country Flag:
    Australia
    State/Region:
    AU Queensland
    Mate what height/ size rings are pictured there? Exactly what I'm after. Also what scope for bell reference? Any interference with there irons?
     
  3. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    457
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Arizona
    Those are 1" rings. I don't know if they are Medium or Low height, I would guess Medium. The bell on the scope measures about 40mm OD so I would guess it's a nominal 36mm objective. I don't get any visual interference from the rear sight, even at the lowest power. You can sort of see it at the bottom of the field, but it's no problem.

    I have no idea whether Warne products were ever exported to Oz, although I do seem to remember that Warne himself is originally from there. There are several Aussies on this forum, perhaps one of them will know where to find a pair of Warne Sako rings. Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, they are discontinued, but if they were imported into Australia you should be able to find a pair. Or maybe an eBay seller here will mail them to you.
     
    Rogan Kinnear likes this.
  4. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    18
    Country Flag:
    Australia
    State/Region:
    AU Queensland
    Cheers for the reply mate, I have managed to find a few sets. I'm optimistic about finding the exact one's I want (as above). Assuming they are good weight a zero well? Pretty sure my 308 is a medium action though.
     
  5. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    457
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Arizona
    Glad you found what you need - I was not at all sure you would be able to find Warne products in Oz. Yes, your 308 is undoubtedly a medium action. Rings will work just fine on any length Sako action. They hold a zero well; I've had mine off several times and the zero doesn't shift significantly. I don't know what you plan to use for a scope but I would think that if you like Leupold, either the 1.75-6x or the 2.5-8x Vari-X III would be ideal for a .308. Both have 36mm nominal objective size so would work with the same rings shown in my photo. Or if you want to move upscale, Zeiss and Swarovski both have produced superlative 3-9x scopes with 1" tubes. I have the Zeiss on a .222 Sako and the Swarovski on a 6.5x55 Tikka and they are brilliant. Both are now discontinued (as is the 1.75-6x Leupold) but shouldn't be hard to find on the secondary market.
     
    Rogan Kinnear likes this.
  6. FLT

    FLT Active Member

    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    21
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Florida
    It looks like you will need medium rings to me. Here’s a picture of the package that medium rings come in .

    B78E07E3-9DF0-44ED-A35F-DD75BC0D3D81.jpeg
     
    Rogan Kinnear likes this.
  7. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    457
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Arizona
    Those are permanent mount rings. The QD package is similar, but I think it's a different color.
     
    Rogan Kinnear likes this.
  8. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    18
    Country Flag:
    Australia
    State/Region:
    AU Queensland
    Thanks
    Thanks for taking the time to share that great information about scopes mate. I was thinking of spoiling myself and putting a Schmidt and Bender Klassic 3-12x42 on it. Hoping to shoot some steel out at long range but not sure how it will go with a scope that size. I've never had an objective that size and not sure how it will go lugging it around chasing deer. A lot of money if it's only good for steel
     
  9. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    457
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Arizona
    And don't forget that with the S&B, you'd need to find a set of 30mm high or extra-high rings. Sako and Leupold make them, but you might have a tough time finding the discontinued Warne rings in 30mm. The Schmidt & Bender is, obviously, a superlative scope, but I would say it's more than you need for deer. You don't typically shoot deer at the kind of range where you need a 12x, and the advantage of the larger objective is mainly during low light at dawn and dusk. I doubt the big S&B would have any significant practical advantage over the lighter and less expensive Zeiss, Swarovski, or Leupold models I mentioned in my previous post. Leupold also makes or has made 3.5-10x, 4-12x, and 4.5-14x scopes that would give you more power for banging on steel without the weight, bulk, and expense of the Schmidt. These three models all use the same housing on a 1" tube so would be compatible with the 1" Warne high rings. Here's a shot of the 4-12 in old-style Sako rings on a Sako .222. The glossy finish is no longer a stock catalog item, but there are plenty of older models around that would match your Sako nicely.
    L469-222 Mag 3.JPG

    Also, here's the 3-9x Zeiss, mounted on an L461 carbine. The bell clears the barrel with medium rings, but the large ocular of the European scopes requires high rings to clear the bolt handle. I remounted this scope in high rings after this photo was taken.
    Carbine + Zeiss.JPG

    And finally, the 2.5-8x Leupold on a Tikka M55.
    Tikka 222-1.JPG
     
    Rogan Kinnear likes this.
  10. South Pender

    South Pender Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    62
    Country Flag:
    Canada
    State/Region:
    CA British Columbia
    I'm with icebear on this. That S&B 3-12x42 has an objective bell OD of 2" and will require 30 mm. mounts. If your .308 is primarily for general hunting, my preference would be for a much smaller scope that mounts low and gets your eye instantly on target with a proper cheek weld on the stock. In addition, that S&B weighs 20 oz.--too heavy in my view for a general-purpose hunting rifle, making the whole rig overly heavy and cumbersome.

    My nominee for the perfect general-purpose hunting scope is the 1” Swarovski 3-9x36 mentioned earlier by icebear. I've used that scope, in one iteration or another, on a number of hunting rifles over the last 30 years for everything from pronghorn to deer, caribou, and moose. These scopes have gone by a number of names over the years--the Swarovski 3-9x36 Habicht Nova, Swarovski 3-9x36 Habicht AV (I think that might have been the first one I owned, with the green ring on the ocular), and more-recently Swarovski Z3 3-9x36 (currently available). They have all been outstanding performers--rugged, clear and bright optically, and possessing precise adjustments.

    Most of all, they’re light (12 oz.), relatively short (12”), and have an objective OD of only 1.65”, making low mounting and a compact rig possible. At 3-power, they provide a 39 ft. FOV at 100 yards—better than any other 3-9 that I’m aware of. Here’s my Z3, along with vintage Sako mounts, awaiting mounting on my Sako 85 .270:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
    Rogan Kinnear likes this.
  11. South Pender

    South Pender Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    62
    Country Flag:
    Canada
    State/Region:
    CA British Columbia
    That's one area where the newer Sako 75s and 85s, with their 70° bolt lift, are superior to the earlier models.
     
    Rogan Kinnear and icebear like this.
  12. icebear

    icebear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    457
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Arizona
    Agree. Sauer and Steyr also make rifles with three-lug bolts and 60-70 degree bolt lift. I've owned both and I do like the shorter throw, as well as the greater scope clearance. I might even get an 85 some day, but I still like the older guns, especially the carbines.
     
  13. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    18
    Country Flag:
    Australia
    State/Region:
    AU Queensland
    I'll admit it's the one concern for me as well, clearing the optic with the bolt. I will have a gander at that swaro, I believe it's branded z3 now. We often hunt pigs, dogs, fox and other varmint at night and planning on chasing deer in the high country in Victoria Australia. I gather that hunters that shoot sambar deer often take shots across the gully and maybe 2-700 yards. I follow a few pages and they seem to prefer or favour the 50mm objectives. This said I am back to umming and arring about it after having my mind made up. I always shot small, light scopes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  14. South Pender

    South Pender Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    62
    Country Flag:
    Canada
    State/Region:
    CA British Columbia
    I'm always a little skeptical about reports I read of 700 yd. (or often 800-1000 yd.) kills claimed in the game fields. I'm not the best game shot in the world, but I'm not the worst either, and, for me, under normal field conditions, anything over about 400 yds. is beyond where I have confidence in a clean kill. With the more-recent deluge of huge, expensive illuminated scopes with a bewildering array of range-finding reticles and ballistic turrets, along with the advent of the various tactical shooting sports—F-class and PRS, for example—hunters are being encouraged (wrongly in my opinion) to consider extreme ranges as normal in the hunting fields, with the result being many clear misses or, worse, wounded animals. It really doesn’t matter how far your scope will reach out or its ability to dial in the appropriate adjustment, if you can’t hold steady at this extreme range—and judge and compensate for wind, angle of the shot, etc.—the scope won’t get you a clean kill, and in my experience few hunters can, in normal field conditions (i.e., without a rock solid rest), hold steady enough on a target at 700-800 yards to attempt such a shot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
    Unclekax likes this.
  15. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    18
    Country Flag:
    Australia
    State/Region:
    AU Queensland
    Hear ya loud clear. I'm unsure on the ethics of and I hunted by bow for years so like to get close BUT there are a number of situations id like the extra legs. Yeah, 400 is a long way. I can group 223 pretty well at 300 -400/off a bench or pack, my issue is I can't see that far in enough detail to see my group and either a spotting scope to run down to see the group. I'd be interested how far I can shoot that little scope. Never tried over 400 with 223. Generally stay under 200 in hunting . My binoes aren't help either and they are a good size. I use targets I can hear like wild mellons so I can tell when I'm hitting. What it looks like, without handling the swaro, is that the 1" 50mls are pretty light and compact, particularly when you put them next to some of the old scopes. I need to drive the 5 hours onto the gun shop to see, hold and compare them. Note the hilarious comment under video lol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  16. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    18
    Country Flag:
    Australia
    State/Region:
    AU Queensland
    That fella is holding a 4x next to Swaro 50, comparable, or so it seems, at least. Screenshot_20200713-165800_YouTube.jpg
     
  17. sander4

    sander4 Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Country Flag:
    USA
    State/Region:
    US Illinois
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
    Rogan Kinnear likes this.

Share This Page

This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Okay More information