New Member from Australia

Discussion in 'New members, please introduce yourselves here!' started by A11swift, Nov 22, 2021.

  1. A11swift

    A11swift Member

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    I’ve just purchased my first Sako, A11 Varmint 220 swift, ?1979. The rifle is in great condition, very little use, but has a few stock blemishes. Sorry for the long thread, I hope it’s informative.


    My initial joy was short lived as it had a very heavy trigger pull and was also slam-firing. It was bedded and I wondered if this was done as the trigger wouldn’t have produced good accuracy.
    I contacted the seller who claimed it hadn’t slam-fired on him during his 30 years ownership.
    I used this site for information regarding the trigger adjustment and set about adjusting, after I filed the burred trigger pull nut in order just to get a spanner on it. You guessed it, one of those recalcitrant triggers as mentioned on the forum that wouldn’t adjust below 3 1/2 pounds, but did manage to get rid of the slam-firing.

    I decided not to bother with load development until I replaced the trigger with a Timney. I finished the job this afternoon and it certainly was the ordeal that others have found with the L579 / A11. Metal had to be removed several areas of the trigger housing, shortening the trigger blade and removing metal from the underside of the action. Inletting of the stock was very minimal, just enough to clear the trigger pull thread. I adjusted the trigger to a touch over 2 pounds, felt good. Placed action back into stock to find there was now a delay with the firing pin fall, never felt this before on any rifle. Rechecked the trigger adjustment and all good out of the stock, but delay returned with stock back on.
    I remembered something off the forum about tang screw shims and wondered out of curiosity whether it would make any difference. I placed a 1mm fibre washer under the trigger guard tang screw and much to my relief this resolved the delayed firing pin fall, a win at last.
    Now time for load development. Thanks for listening.

    Scott
     
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  2. deersako

    deersako Well-Known Member

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    Quite an intro Scott, welcome, but holy hell -

    ‘Metal had to be removed several areas of the trigger housing, shortening the trigger blade and removing metal from the underside of the action. Inletting of the stock was very minimal, just enough to clear the trigger pull thread’.
     
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  3. kevinlg

    kevinlg Well-Known Member

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    Wow!!.....interesting.

    Exactly what....."removing metal from the underside of the action"......area are you speaking of, and why the necessity to remove it?

    Also.....pretty sure your delayed firing pin fall may be caused by the rear action screw protruding into the action slot for the firing pin sear to travel through. A fiber washer may "work", but a better solution is to shorten the rear action screw(about 0.020"), and re-assemble. Check that the sear does NOT contact the screw end when firing(I put a very small piece of masking tape over the screw end......and then check for any rub mark after firing pin fall).

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. A11swift

    A11swift Member

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    Basically, the trigger housing is too long and also too high at the pin housing. The locating pin doesn’t line up. The information on this site alerted me to these issues prior to fitting and appears more common on the L579 / A11 action.

    I had to remove metal from the locating pin lug on the action and remove metal from the angled section of the action at the tang. Metal had to be removed from the pin locating (curved boss), trigger housing area.

    I was ready for taking metal from the trigger blade s this was also described in the forum. It is disappointing the Timney’s aren’t a direct fit for the L579 /A11.

    I will have a look at the rear tang screw and check the height. Thanks for the advice.

    Scott
     
  5. wombat

    wombat Well-Known Member

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    Bloody Hell Scott,
    That sounds full on, never heard of anything like that, I was nearly ready to have a drink!!!
    Can you post some pictures of where you had to remove material from the underside.
    Has any other member replaced a trigger with a Timney?
    I hope it all comes together for you.
    A 220 swift! great calibre, let us know how it shoots.
    Good luck.
    Jay
     
  6. A11swift

    A11swift Member

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    Hi Jay

    I will get some pics up of the rifle and the areas that had to be ground off.

    I was not surprised with what I had to do as I found out all of the information from members on this forum who had fitted a Timney to the L579 / A11. I encountered all of the issues they did.

    I felt I had little choice as the rifle was basically handicapped by not being able to adjust the original trigger light enough to get the most for a varmint rifle.
    Scott
     
  7. A11swift

    A11swift Member

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    I have added some pics of the rifle and the areas that required removal of metal to enable the Timney fitting. The following measurements will also show the differences in dimensions. All measurements are from the centre of the mounting pin:
    *A11 action (underside) - mounting pin to tang boss = 1 3/4" or 44mm
    *Original Sako trigger - mounting pin to housing = 1 5/8" or 41mm
    * Timney trigger - mounting pin to housing = 1 25/32" or 45mm
    * The Timney pin boss radius is almost 2mm longer

    IMG_1213.JPG IMG_1233.JPG IMG_1216.JPG IMG_1218.JPG IMG_1217.JPG IMG_1223.JPG IMG_1221.JPG IMG_1230.JPG IMG_1232.JPG [/ATTACH] IMG_1213.JPG IMG_1233.JPG IMG_1216.JPG IMG_1218.JPG IMG_1217.JPG IMG_1223.JPG IMG_1230.JPG

    I hope you like the rifle and trust the pics and measurements help explain the Timney fitting issues.

    Scott
     
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  8. kevinlg

    kevinlg Well-Known Member

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    Scott,

    Thanks for the good pics of your nice rifle.

    I had not previously heard of the Timney trigger mounting problems.
    Since hindsight is always 20/20.......I would have suggested a Canjar single-set, or a factory Sako Target Trigger.
    Living Down Under......your trigger options may be very limited.

    I guess I'm implying that I'd try a lot of things.....before modifying the receiver itself.
    BUT......I'm not there, or in your shoes.

    Did you ever find out why the original trigger would not safely adjust below 3.5 pounds? Most will safely adjust to 2.5 to 3.0 pounds.......some to 2.0 pounds.
     
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  9. Bucktote

    Bucktote Well-Known Member

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    Greetings Mr. A11swift.
    One of your countrymen sent me some shims when the bolt on my L 579 Forester was dragging on the tang bolt. If having one will help you I will be glad to share!! I'll need your mailing address!!
    B/T
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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  10. A11swift

    A11swift Member

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    Hi Kevnig

    The trigger would not physically adjust below 3.5 pounds, there was no impact on the safety. Someone had previously attempted to adjust, this was evident by the burred trigger pull nut and the dangerous slam-firing. My gunsmith didn’t feel comfortable with attempting to hone the trigger and suggested a Timney.

    You are correct, we don’t have many trigger options available down here. Apparently, there is a local company Maddco, reported to be very good, but no longer made.

    I did look at the rear action screw protrusion and it had ample clearance. Thanks again for your help.

    Scott
     
  11. A11swift

    A11swift Member

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    Hi Bucktote

    Thank you for your kind offer, can I pm you my address on fb?

    My tang screw has good clearance, but there certainly must be some compression of the action when tightened up. I have a feeling the action wasn’t really squared and centred when the bedding job was done.

    Scott
     
  12. kevinlg

    kevinlg Well-Known Member

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    Scott,

    I realize this is all after-the-fact.....but.....

    The Sako stock "shims" are only intended to allow for proper alignment of the receiver and bottom metal to individual stocks.
    Their use has no effect on trigger function, assuming there is no protrusion of the rear action screw above the action tang hole.

    Since there is no screw interference on your rifle....the trigger problem may still be internal to the trigger housing.
    Assuming your AII has the #4 Sako trigger......
    The overtravel(bottom) screw may be adjusted too tight to the trigger lever......causing the trigger sear to almost jam in its downward movement.....slowing firing pin fall.(Note: I once worked on a trigger where the overtravel was so badly adjusted, the entire mechanism was locked-up solid.....requiring dis-assembly).
    Next, the internal sliding sear block may be excessively "gummed-up".....slowing its downward movement(forced by the firing pin sear upon firing pin fall).

    Since the Sako trigger is no longer in the rifle.....perhaps you can post a few pics, showing the screw adjustments closely.

    Unless it has been damaged internally.....you may still have a good trigger assembly.
     
  13. A11swift

    A11swift Member

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    Kevin

    It is the #4 Sako trigger and I can post some pics to show the adjustments.

    The delayed firing pin release only occurred with the Timney, and only when tightened in the stock. Due to fact the 1mm stock shim fixed the delayed firing pin release leaves me to believe the action is being distorted to some extent. As I mentioned to B/T, I don’t think the barrel/action was squared/levelled correctly to provide stress-free bedding when the bedding job was performed.

    Now with the improved trigger I can effectively perform some accuracy testing. I will be using 50gn Vmax and have Win 760, 4350(AR2209) and Varget(AR2208)

    I am grateful for the experience and advice the site is providing, much appreciated.

    Scott
     
  14. kevinlg

    kevinlg Well-Known Member

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    Scott,

    On one hand....it's good to know that the #4 trigger is not the one with a delayed firing pin fall, but still there's the 3.5 pound pull thing.

    Did you put the shim between the receiver tang and stock......or between the trigger guard and stock?
    Per your previous pictures and the mods that were required to mount the Timney trigger.....I'm thinking that the wood/bedding may be bearing on the trigger housing/assembly or trigger lever itself.
    I'm suspicious that the shim may have partly reduced the delayed firing pin fall....but not eliminated it.

    (edit: Just another thought.....
    Does the trigger guard/bottom metal contact the trigger housing when the action screws are tightened??)

    Hope this helps.
     
  15. Bucktote

    Bucktote Well-Known Member

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    Hi Scott,
    I do not use Facebook, Twitter or any other like systems. I see they are adept in stiffiling conservative views and are in my opinion a dangerous threat to my country and freedom. There is a chat program on this site & if you want to use it I will do the same. I am not knowledgable as to how to use it but I will get help
     
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  16. A11swift

    A11swift Member

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    Kevin

    I have attached pics of the Sako #4 trigger so you can check the adjustments. I have also added a comparison photo of the Sako #4 and Commercial 98 Mauser. I have read where #4 can be used in a Mauser 98, this photo shows why the 98 trigger will not fit the Sako action as it is too long. It is even longer than the Timney.

    I placed the shim between the floorplate and the stock. The trigger had clearance prior to the shim, I had to grind approx 3/16" off the trigger length IMG_1236.JPG IMG_1237.JPG IMG_1239.JPG before it would fit.

    Scott
     
  17. A11swift

    A11swift Member

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    Hi B/T

    I am not all that good with the tech stuff either. I thank you again for your kind offer, it is much appreciated.

    I am going to see how it shoots now it has a decent trigger pull and I am pretty sure I will be able to make some if necessary.

    Regards, Scott
     
  18. Bucktote

    Bucktote Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mr. Swift,
    Let me know if you need one, I will learn how to get it to you.
    B/T
     
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  19. kevinlg

    kevinlg Well-Known Member

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    Scott,

    I was trying to ask about the vertical clearance between the bottom metal( upper portion, above the slot cut for the trigger lever), and the bottom of the Timney trigger assembly housing( the housing only....not the trigger lever itself).

    In the past, on some custom Sakos.....I've actually had to shorten the bottom of the #4 trigger housing(pretty dang close to the trigger lever pivot pin), in order for it to clear the top of the bottom metal above the trigger slot. In one extreme case I even had to "thin" the metal around the bottom metal trigger slot.
    That was one skinny(vertically) stock. But then, the rifle.....with its 18" barrel.....weighed only about 5 pounds.
     
  20. A11swift

    A11swift Member

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    Kevin

    Yes, there is clearance between the bottom of the trigger housing and the stock / floor plate, not a lot.

    The safety lever of the Timney below it's pivot pin does protrude below the trigger housing and below floorplate level. The floor plate is channelled to allow for this, but I had to relieve it more to allow more clearance. The safety lever plate doesn't appear to have to be as long as it is, I suppose it just made it easier for Timney's tooling and manufacture process.

    When I purchased my Interarms Mark X 257 Roberts Imp someone had bedded it in a Bell and Carlson Carbolite stock. It wouldn't feed the rounds out of the magazine. The magazine to action measurement is critical on Mauser 98 actions and requires 1/32" clearance to feed smoothly, this had 3/16". I had to remove more than 1/8" of stock / bedding material from the floor plate recess. It now feeds flawlessly and had no impact on accuracy. I am using Speer 87gn HP with either 50gn Win 760 or AR2209 (4350). It shoots everything inc fireforming Winchester 117 gn factory loads to the same POI, I've never had any rifle do that.

    Scott
     

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