Lots of "play" in Sako target trigger?

Discussion in 'General Sako Discussions' started by Charles Witt, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. Charles Witt

    Charles Witt Active Member

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    Hi guys.
    Just received a 6ppc (Garcia import), single shot with the target trigger. It is in the original box and appears very lightly used, however the trigger adjustment screws appear to have been toyed with and the trigger has a lot of "play" in it. I'm no expert on triggers, but this one "flops" around. I don't want to start messing with the screws until I get some input on what the problem might be, or if it is normal.
    Thank you!

     

  2. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    It is not normal! It would be very difficult to attempt an analysis without actually seeing the gun in person, but it might be helpful if you could post photos of the trigger mechanism with the action out of the stock and a more detailed description of what it does when cocked and when not cocked: how if flops around and how it acts when it is cocked and the trigger is pulled. Pull is too light, too heavy, mushy, etc. There's definitely something wrong; Sako triggers do not flop around.
     
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  3. Charles Witt

    Charles Witt Active Member

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    Thanks for the reply, icebear. Helped me evaluate and explain a little better.

    In the uncocked position, the trigger is able to move forward and rearward, about 1/2 inch, with no pressure; ie: rotating the gun from barrel pointing down to barrel pointing up will cause the trigger to "fall" forward or rearward.

    In the cocked position, the trigger will no longer "fall", as there is some resistance required,though upon pulling the trigger, it is "mushy" for about 1/2 inch until it hits a "wall" and then breaks cleanly at around 1 pound (just a guess, but it is very light).

    This all may be normal operation for this target trigger. I think that I will be able to shoot well with this trigger, but was just surprised that it is able to fall forward and rearward. None of my other Sakos are like that (though they are all sporters).

    Thanks again.

    Top picture to show trigger guard.
    Middle picture is with gun cocked. The trigger is held in "forward" position
    Bottom picture is with gun uncocked. The trigger is in "rear" position and will easily move or "fall" or "toggle" between forward and rearward positions.

    IMG_20200806_001358.jpg IMG_20200806_001214.jpg IMG_20200806_001103.jpg
     
  4. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    The pictures and description are helpful. Now it's time for somebody with recent experience with that particular target trigger to take over. I had a PPC single shot like that about 20 years ago, but I don't think I ever had to mess with the trigger. It definitely sounds like something is out of adjustment on this one, and maybe a spring missing besides. You have adjustments for pull weight, overtravel, and possibly take-up and sear engagement. Some combination of fiddling with them should solve the problem, but I've reached the end of what I can do.
     
  5. dgeesaman

    dgeesaman Well-Known Member

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    I’m pretty sure my target triggers flop back to front when they are not cocked.

    Does the trigger movement seem normal (two stage) when it’s cocked?
     
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  6. Charles Witt

    Charles Witt Active Member

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    Normal two stage when cocked, I think
    The trigger movement does seem normal (excellent actually) when it's cocked.
     
  7. South Pender

    South Pender Well-Known Member

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    Well if it's any help, I had the A1 heavy-barrel single-shot Sako 6 PPC with the target trigger (and holes in the trigger guard, as in the picture), and it certainly did not flop around in either cocked or un-cocked mode. Thus, I think I'm with icebear on this: the trigger is not functioning as it was intended to. I think icebear's suggestion of a missing spring (or screw) is worth exploring.

    I fiddled quite a bit with my trigger and was able to get the pull weight down to a crisp 9-10 oz. weight if memory serves me. My feeling at the time was that it was not really a great trigger; it was just OK, but not up to the quality of my many Jewells and Anschutz rimfire match triggers.
     
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  8. Charles Witt

    Charles Witt Active Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Sounds like I'm going to have to have it looked at.
     
  9. Charles Witt

    Charles Witt Active Member

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    The trigger does not reset unless you cock the gun.
     
  10. Charles Witt

    Charles Witt Active Member

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    Just a quick update. I contacted a gun shop owner that has a 6 ppc and a 22 ppc for sale currently. The triggers on both of his guns function in the exact same manner as mine.
     
  11. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    Sounds like there's a variation of Sako triggers out there that I haven't seen before. I have seen, and owned, target rifles with triggers that would flop around when not cocked, but that's the first time I've seen or heard of it on a Sako.

    Charles: How is the overtravel on that trigger? Does it stop as soon as it lets off, or does it keep going for a ways? The overtravel should be adjustable.
     
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  12. South Pender

    South Pender Well-Known Member

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    The phenomenon described by Charles Witt suggests a two-stage trigger with the first stage completely, or almost completely, dialed out. I've seen this with the Anschutz two-stage triggers (e.g., the Anschutz 5109), where the owner preferred to eliminate the first stage and treat the trigger as more-or-less a single-stage unit. In that case, all the resistance previously present in the first stage has been eliminated, and the trigger flops without resistance to the "wall" at which point the second stage kicks in, rendering the trigger much like a single-stage unit (although the floppy first stage is mildly off-putting). So this raises the question as to whether some of these Sako target triggers were, in fact, two-stage units. Mine was not, and there was nothing in the typewritten trigger instructions that accompanied the owner's manual suggesting two-stage operation. It was simply a single-stage trigger lacking any first-stage take-up before the resistance began. As I mentioned earlier, by fiddling mainly with the weight-of-pull adjustment, I was able to tease it down to about 9-10 oz. I didn't touch the sear-engagement screw (something I'm very loathe to do unless a lot of creep is present).

    I guess the question remains as to whether Charles Witt's trigger could be restored to normal two-stage operation should that be desired. Perhaps a member of this forum can suggest someone who is really knowledgeable about Sako triggers. I have had Neal Stepp, of International Shooters Service, fine tune one of my Anschutz two-stage units.
     
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  13. kirkbridgershooters

    kirkbridgershooters Well-Known Member

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    Two stage trigger? I guess I don’t know what that is on a PPC single shot rifle...
     
  14. dgeesaman

    dgeesaman Well-Known Member

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    I just took out all 3 of my Sakos with adjustable two-stage trigger. They are adjusted to exhibit both stages and none of them flop around when cocked. All of them flop around in the first stage region when uncocked. The amount of free movement seems to track exactly the amount of first stage.

    Mine are set light, so my theory is we have the "C" screw backed out enough to not contribute any force to the first stage. When the trigger is not cocked then neither trigger spring is applying any contact. I could get into experimenting but I don't feel like messing up my trigger adjustments and I fully believe this is making a big deal out of nothing.
     

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  15. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    That sounds like a good explanation of what is going on. I was thinking along the same lines but couldn't quite organize the thoughts into a coherent paragraph.
     
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  16. Charles Witt

    Charles Witt Active Member

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    What he said.
    Now I just need to find some factory loaded 6ppc USA ammunition!
     
  17. dgeesaman

    dgeesaman Well-Known Member

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    I predict you won't, unless you find a box of very old stock Sako ammunition, which I wouldn't necessarily recommend you shoot.

    There are folks who hand load ammo for you but it gets very expensive. I bought my first Sako 6PPC-USA a few years ago and began my hand loading with it immediately. Technically you need a die set, reloading kit, bullets, primers, and powder. But there is reason to include some other accessories and upgrades. Hand loading is a real rabbit hole, if you choose to follow it deeply a Sako 6PPC will jump you to the upper end of accuracy.

    My recommendation is to load your own using Norma or Sako 6PPC-USA brass, 70gr Sierra MatchKings, and H322 powder. Somewhere I was told this is close to the Sako factory rounds. I won't try to tell you what that load ought to be, but my best result was close to the loading manual numbers and it will be a quality result you can build on. Norma 6PPC brass is not a high volume seller so you may have to search a bit for it. Also, I recommend full length sizing the brass each time, but use a sizing die that fits it well. Then your brass will last 10 firings easy, and with annealing much longer. Sako PPC chambers do not match up well with major brand dies in my experience (sample size = 2 factory chambers) so I recommend firing a few pieces a few times each (just neck size enough to get started) and send them off to Harrell's to match up to one of their sizing dies. At $75 there is no better value in PPC sizing dies than a Harrell's.

    In most conversations about PPC, you'll hear about the quality of Lapua brass and see loads that involve stuffing vast amounts of N133 into the case. Beware these are not applicable to a Sako being shot for fun. I've shot all of the available brass, and while I am currently shooting Lapua, it's a more involved process to form and I don't think its measurably better for this kind of shooting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
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  18. dgeesaman

    dgeesaman Well-Known Member

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    One more thing: stick with 70gr and under for bullets. The Sako twist won't stabilize anything heavier. Also the non-lead bullets won't stabilize in mine.
     
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