Long range 30-06 (hunting)

[Arian]

So now that iam getting myself a long barreled Sako rifle i feel it may be time to go back to the drawing board for my deer loads as well. I can find plenty of recipes and my carbine liked the Tarvas 180 grain well enough. Gell test confirm that i like what the bullet is doing as well. I do wonder if i could do better for the longer ranges tho.

some general info on the tarvas

180 grain Copper solid with alot of penetration rather than a classic mushrooming it flattens out into a cylinder profile,essentially a copper rod zipping through at high speed (overpenetration be damned) wich has been proven to put a smackdown on anything from roe deer to moose while making caliber size holes in the meat itself with minimal bruising yet leaving the lungs a Black and blue bruised mess (sounds magical but i have witnessed it).

G1 BC 0.301
velocities range 2500-2800 fps in the 30-06

However in the carbine they started dropping like bricks after 120m or so and at 200+m they where practically mortar rounds (not what they where designed for anyway, 30-100 being the typical range.

Having a long barreled hopefully accurate rifle i would like the ability to shoot a deer from across a lake without having to Dial a scope. Aim high lung, hit at worst low lung.

Iam looking for some of the flattest shooting versatile and raliable expanding bullets(copper solid) i could load for a 30-06. In this case price/import etc is no objection, i consider even 10 euro a shot acceptable when deer is on the menu.
150gr minimum weight (bureaucracy...)

as a bonus id rather them not be flesh grenades like i have seen from some Berger stuff.Iam ideally looking for something close to Tarvas in effect on flesh but mutch flatter shooting.

Does such a bullet exist? in any country?

 

[Bucktote]

Arian,
there is an Accubond bullet, by Nosler 165 grain, my friend uses for deer. You will need a different bullet that is made for heavy boned, thick skin animals like Moose & like size game. The Accubond bullets are more expensive than the ones I use. I have killed many deer with my 30/06 using 125 grain Ballistic tips, @ 3,032 FPS all under 200 yards, however you have said they do not meet the minimum requirements in Finland. I stay away from solid copper bullets as they foul the barrel a lot sooner & are also expensive. I hope some other members chime in as I only can speak to what works for me@ my farm.

 

[Arian]

Arian,
there is an Accubond bullet, by Nosler 165 grain, my friend uses for deer. You will need a different bullet that is made for heavy boned, thick skin animals like Moose & like size game. The Accubond bullets are more expensive than the ones I use. I have killed many deer with my 30/06 using 125 grain Ballistic tips, @ 3,032 FPS all under 200 yards, however you have said they do not meet the minimum requirements in Finland. I stay away from solid copper bullets as they foul the barrel a lot sooner & are also expensive. I hope some other members chime in as I only can speak to what works for me@ my farm.

there is growing stigma on lead. Especially on group hunts lead is more and more becoming bad etiquet because of fears that it could contaminate meat. experience in my hunting club is also that copper bullets inherently have more accuracy potential (cant say for sure but it sure seems so at the range).

Moose hunts are a seperate affair all together, i find african type bullets work well when tarvas isnt acceptable (tarvas is penetration monster Even on moose) they are subject to a type of license only given to groups. shooting moose on the farm fields is technically allowed for a few weeks in the season but it is generally seen as too big for a single hunter to deal with and by tradition seen as very antisocial and greedy as moose hunt is a community thing. So white tails are the biggest il tackle with these.

Il check the accubonds out. Iam guessing BC is a big part of the equasion here? looking to basically hit within a 30cm vertical tolerance out to 300 meter with a 100m zero if that is achievable?
New to rifles so dont be shy to educate me if iam chasing a unicorn

 

[Bucktote]

there is growing stigma on lead. Especially on group hunts lead is more and more becoming bad etiquet because of fears that it could contaminate meat. experience in my hunting club is also that copper bullets inherently have more accuracy potential (cant say for sure but it sure seems so at the range).

Moose hunts are a seperate affair all together, i find african type bullets work well when tarvas isnt acceptable (tarvas is penetration monster Even on moose) they are subject to a type of license only given to groups. shooting moose on the farm fields is technically allowed for a few weeks in the season but it is generally seen as too big for a single hunter to deal with and by tradition seen as very antisocial and greedy as moose hunt is a community thing. So white tails are the biggest il tackle with these.

Il check the accubonds out. Iam guessing BC is a big part of the equasion here? looking to basically hit within a 30cm vertical tolerance out to 300 meter with a 100m zero if that is achievable?
New to rifles so dont be shy to educate me if iam chasing a unicorn

Adrian,
When I was young I would shoot at longer distances. An older friend suggested that if I was going to shoot out to 300Yds. I should zero 3" high @ 100 yds. The theory was if doing so the rifle would put a bullet within an 8" circle from point blank to 300 yds, I did this for a long time, however the shots I have taken were seldom that far. I shot a pronghorn in Montana @ 207 yds. There are more fellows on this site that can give you more on that subject, I hope they will jump in & give you some more suggestions. Currently My Sako AV 30/06 is zeroed @ 2" high @ 100 yds. I have taken deer on our small farm @ 160 +/_ yds. with my rifles. High shoulder shots are my favorite as it also gets the spinal cord. No need to track the game! My friend also told me that I am giving the deer an education when I missed at those looong shots.
He was right! Some got a PHD. in road opening crossings!

 

[paulsonconstruction]

For big game rifles I have found the best method is to use a circle of 20 centimeters as your target. Then use a zero that will keep your bullet within that circle with a center hold aim point that is as far a distance as the trajectory will allow. It's called the Maximum Point Blank Range. My go to hunting rifle is sighted so that with a center hold aim my bullet is never more than 10 centimeters above or below my line of sight out to 300 meters, which is my self imposed limit for an ethical shot. No guessing about range, no guessing about holdover, no gadgets to fiddle with, just aim center mass & if I miss the animal was too far away. With smaller game you can use a 10 or 15 centimeter circle & use the same point blank range method.

 

[Arian]

Adrian,
When I was young I would shoot at longer distances. An older friend suggested that if I was going to shoot out to 300Yds. I should zero 3" high @ 100 yds. The theory was if doing so the rifle would put a bullet within an 8" circle from point blank to 300 yds, I did this for a long time, however the shots I have taken were seldom that far. I shot a pronghorn in Montana @ 207 yds. There are more fellows on this site that can give you more on that subject, I hope they will jump in & give you some more suggestions. Currently My Sako AV 30/06 is zeroed @ 2" high @ 100 yds. I have taken deer on our small farm @ 160 +/_ yds. with my rifles. High shoulder shots are my favorite as it also gets the spinal cord. No need to track the game! My friend also told me that I am giving the deer an education when I missed at those looong shots.
He was right! Some got a PHD. in road opening crossings!

I just double checked and i misread the law here. 150gr is for moose and bear. Deer is either 90 grain or 123 grain minimum depending on the muzzle energy.

 

[Arian]

For big game rifles I have found the best method is to use a circle of 20 centimeters as your target. Then use a zero that will keep your bullet within that circle with a center hold aim point that is as far a distance as the trajectory will allow. It's called the Maximum Point Blank Range. My go to hunting rifle is sighted so that with a center hold aim my bullet is never more than 10 centimeters above or below my line of sight out to 300 meters, which is my self imposed limit for an ethical shot. No guessing about range, no guessing about holdover, no gadgets to fiddle with, just aim center mass & if I miss the animal was too far away. With smaller game you can use a 10 or 15 centimeter circle & use the same point blank range method.

my rifle is "allround" in a very extreme definition of the term as i only own a single rifle and my hunts are rarely species specific. I have taken hare at 30m, a stray duck at 40 and a deer at 60 in the span of an hour. The maximum point blank distance sounds like a good concept but iam specifically after a bullet here as flatter trajectory in my mind will already set me up for a wider range of shots with minimal compensation. Reducing bullet drop should directly tighten that circle you mention at a given range shouldnt it?

After i have the projectile sorted, il have to develop the load. And from there il have all summer to try the great advice you guys have for me at the outdoor range.

 

[sep]

In 30-06, you could work up two loads. A light load for deer and a heavier load for moose and bear. If you prefer monolithic all copper bullets, Barnes makes 110, 130, 150. 165, 168 and 180 grain tipped Triple Shock (TTSX) bullets.

You could try 110s, 130s and 150s for deer and 168s or 180s for moose and bear. The 165 grain bullet can be used in the 30-06 but it was designed for the 300 WSM and 300 Win Mag cartridges.

If you would prefer to use just one bullet weight for everything, I load the 168 grain TTSX in 30-06 for hunting everything from Sitka Blacktail deer to Moose. I have only used it to kill two caribou so far and it worked fine. I also load the 180 grain Accubond for my Sako 85 also chambered in 30-06 but haven't killed anything with it yet. I have used the 140 grain Accubond in 7mm-08 to kill three caribou and it worked well. So, the Accubond should work well in 30-06 too if you decided to use a bonded bullet.

I prefer the monolithic bullets myself having used them in 338 Win Mag for blacktail deer, caribou, goat, moose, black bear and brown bear. I think they work best at the fastest velocity you can reasonably push them and one bullet weight lighter than normal for the cartridge. This has been Barnes' reloading advice for many years. Good luck!

 

[Gavin-Jonathan Brown]

So now that iam getting myself a long barreled Sako rifle i feel it may be time to go back to the drawing board for my deer loads as well. I can find plenty of recipes and my carbine liked the Tarvas 180 grain well enough. Gell test confirm that i like what the bullet is doing as well. I do wonder if i could do better for the longer ranges tho.

some general info on the tarvas

180 grain Copper solid with alot of penetration rather than a classic mushrooming it flattens out into a cylinder profile,essentially a copper rod zipping through at high speed (overpenetration be damned) wich has been proven to put a smackdown on anything from roe deer to moose while making caliber size holes in the meat itself with minimal bruising yet leaving the lungs a Black and blue bruised mess (sounds magical but i have witnessed it).

G1 BC 0.301
velocities range 2500-2800 fps in the 30-06

However in the carbine they started dropping like bricks after 120m or so and at 200+m they where practically mortar rounds (not what they where designed for anyway, 30-100 being the typical range.

Having a long barreled hopefully accurate rifle i would like the ability to shoot a deer from across a lake without having to Dial a scope. Aim high lung, hit at worst low lung.

Iam looking for some of the flattest shooting versatile and raliable expanding bullets(copper solid) i could load for a 30-06. In this case price/import etc is no objection, i consider even 10 euro a shot acceptable when deer is on the menu.
150gr minimum weight (bureaucracy...)

as a bonus id rather them not be flesh grenades like i have seen from some Berger stuff.Iam ideally looking for something close to Tarvas in effect on flesh but mutch flatter shooting.

Does such a bullet exist? in any country?

I have been using the Sako Powerhead- projectile Barnes TSX 180 grain used on Roe/ Reds with no issues in my Sako M995 30-06. I used to use Federal Classic in the past which used to create a big exit hole.
In addition to the above I use the Sako Powerhead- projectile Barnes TSX 270 grain in my Sako M995 .375 H+H Mag with no issues. Again I used Federal Classic in the past- lead core made a big exit hole,
I have no experince Tarvas.

 

[Arian]

I have been using the Sako Powerhead- projectile Barnes TSX 180 grain used on Roe/ Reds with no issues in my Sako M995 30-06. I used to use Federal Classic in the past which used to create a big exit hole.
In addition to the above I use the Sako Powerhead- projectile Barnes TSX 270 grain in my Sako M995 .375 H+H Mag with no issues. Again I used Federal Classic in the past- lead core made a big exit hole,
I have no experince Tarvas.

Sako blade? ik know a few people who swear by their accuracy. Also seen entire front legs turned to mush by them. Or am i missing something? you say powerhead barnes, never seen a cartridge called that in my local shop, is it different from the Blade?

 

[Gavin-Jonathan Brown]

Here we go.

 

[Arian]

do you have any pictures of the impact on deer by any chanse? my local shop doesnt have these but looks like i can get them online. Here the popular choises are blade and tarvas but both have their weaknesses, blade will destroy any meat it touches and rarely leaves the body (from 308 at least) and tarvas will absolutely overpenetrate with alot of its speed left.

 

[Gavin-Jonathan Brown]

do you have any pictures of the impact on deer by any chanse? my local shop doesnt have these but looks like i can get them online. Here the popular choises are blade and tarvas but both have their weaknesses, blade will destroy any meat it touches and rarely leaves the body (from 308 at least) and tarvas will absolutely overpenetrate with alot of its speed left.

No sorry.