-
Hey All! Lately there has been more and more scammers on the forum board. They register and replies to members requests for guns and/or parts or other things. The reply contains a gmail or hotmail address or similar ”anonymous” email addresses which they want you to reply to. DO NOT ANSWER ANY STRANGE MESSAGES! They often state something like this: ”Hello! Saw your post about purchasing a stock for a Safari. KnuckleheadBob has one. Email him at: [email protected]” If you receive any strange messages: Check the status of whoever message you. If they have no posts and signed up the same day or very recently, stay away. Same goes for other members they might refer to. Check them too and if they are long standing members, PM them and ask if the message is legit. Most likely it’s not. Then use the report function in each message or post so I can kick them out! Beware of anything that might seem fishy! And again, for all of you who registered your personal name as username, please contact me so I can change it to a more anonymous username. You’d be surprised of how much one can find out about a person from just a username on a forum such ad our! All the best! And be safe! Jim
L46 .222
- Thread starter sakogeorge
- Start date
Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum
sakofan
Active Member
After reading a few older postings about the L46's, I noticed that sako used 12 groove/land rifling. Does anyone know if that was standard across the L46 range or was it done to use with the Marlin models. George it would be interesting to see if your gun has 12 grooves/lands as mine does. I was then wondering about the possibility of the mysterious "M" stamp meaning "microgroove" .
sakofan
sakofan
T
tassie-barry
Guest
I have a friend with a L46 Riihimaki Serial number 43632 but only has the lion and the JMT - It is in great condition and is the full wooded model .222. Can someone give me some info regarding year of manufacture and approximate value ? It is in America.
Cheers
Barry
Cheers
Barry
I have a Vixen L461 .222 with the 12-groove barrel. I haven't checked it for markings, but the multi-groove barrels were used well beyond the L46 era. BTW, it is marvelously accurate.
sakogeorge
Member
I have counted the grooves in my barrel and there are indeed 12.
Is there a L46 with less grooves and without the "M"?
In the meantime I was looking for some scope mounts and my local dealer found a set of old SAKO mounts Made in Australia.
This information might not be new for you but I found it rather ineresting.
Didn't think I would create such a great discussion...
Cheers George
Is there a L46 with less grooves and without the "M"?
In the meantime I was looking for some scope mounts and my local dealer found a set of old SAKO mounts Made in Australia.
This information might not be new for you but I found it rather ineresting.
Didn't think I would create such a great discussion...
Cheers George
Guys -
I don't think the Sako 12 groove and the Marlin 'microgroove' are the same cat. I'm pretty sure the old Sako/Marlin did use Marlin's barrel - incidently they do have the reputation of great initial accuracy, but giving up in 700 rounds or so... Never owned one myself, so that's just hearsay.
As Stonecreek said, use of the 12 groove was not limited to L46s - my L57 243 is as well. I'll check some others today and report back what I think I remember. Dick
I don't think the Sako 12 groove and the Marlin 'microgroove' are the same cat. I'm pretty sure the old Sako/Marlin did use Marlin's barrel - incidently they do have the reputation of great initial accuracy, but giving up in 700 rounds or so... Never owned one myself, so that's just hearsay.
As Stonecreek said, use of the 12 groove was not limited to L46s - my L57 243 is as well. I'll check some others today and report back what I think I remember. Dick
$16.70 - That's Highway Robbery!!! Seriously though Mike, thanks for posting FI's old barrel flyer. Would you happen to know when it was printed? It would also be interesting to know if these old Sako blanks were marked in any way - likely not.
OK - I did a quick check on the groove count of some old rifles just now that seemed pertainent. The oldest Sakos I have are all 6 groove. They include an old L46 with the left wing safety from 1950, an L46 HB from early 58, and a P46 rimfire - not sure when it was made, but I think early 50s.
I have a number of Sakos that are 12 groove. They include an L46 D from late 60, an L57 D also likely from 60, and 2 L579s from 61.
To keep things interesting, all the later Sakos I have are back to 6 groove. Have a L579 from about 65 that's the first. Have a couple L61s from around 70 that are the same.
So, my theory is that Sako sporters started out as 6 groove, and then somewhere around 1960 they started using the 12 groove barrels. Continued until maybe 65, when they switched back to the 6 groove configuration....
Sakofan and Sakogeorge - concerning the mysterious 'M' marking, none of my 12 grooves have the receiver marked as such. However, my L57 does have the plain block capital M stamped on the barrel, right below the JNT inspection mark... Typical Sako-clear-as-mud conundrum.
It would be interesting to hear from others to confirm/dispute my theory. Dick
OK - I did a quick check on the groove count of some old rifles just now that seemed pertainent. The oldest Sakos I have are all 6 groove. They include an old L46 with the left wing safety from 1950, an L46 HB from early 58, and a P46 rimfire - not sure when it was made, but I think early 50s.
I have a number of Sakos that are 12 groove. They include an L46 D from late 60, an L57 D also likely from 60, and 2 L579s from 61.
To keep things interesting, all the later Sakos I have are back to 6 groove. Have a L579 from about 65 that's the first. Have a couple L61s from around 70 that are the same.
So, my theory is that Sako sporters started out as 6 groove, and then somewhere around 1960 they started using the 12 groove barrels. Continued until maybe 65, when they switched back to the 6 groove configuration....
Sakofan and Sakogeorge - concerning the mysterious 'M' marking, none of my 12 grooves have the receiver marked as such. However, my L57 does have the plain block capital M stamped on the barrel, right below the JNT inspection mark... Typical Sako-clear-as-mud conundrum.
It would be interesting to hear from others to confirm/dispute my theory. Dick
I've never seen a Finnbear with 12-groove rifling. Would be very interested to know if such exists.
OK!
Just checked some of my old catalogues and this is what I found:
In the catalog from 1960, ALL Vixens (rifles and barreled actions) are 6 grooves BUT ALL Foresters (rifles and barreled actions) are 12 grooves.
I do not have any from 61 or 62 but in the one from 1963 there are no records of grooves at all EXCEPT for a section pretty much like the one misako posted earlier in the thread. There ALL barrels are 12 grooves EXCEPT for cal .264.
Anyone who has the 61/62 F I catalogs??Or the 58/59 for the L57? Gotta be some info there?
Jim
Just checked some of my old catalogues and this is what I found:
In the catalog from 1960, ALL Vixens (rifles and barreled actions) are 6 grooves BUT ALL Foresters (rifles and barreled actions) are 12 grooves.
I do not have any from 61 or 62 but in the one from 1963 there are no records of grooves at all EXCEPT for a section pretty much like the one misako posted earlier in the thread. There ALL barrels are 12 grooves EXCEPT for cal .264.
Anyone who has the 61/62 F I catalogs??Or the 58/59 for the L57? Gotta be some info there?
Jim
Jim:
Just a reminder that the information in catalogs is frequently out of date at the time of publication. It is not uncommon for catalog copy to remain unchanged for several years in a row during which time the actual productiona specs have changed. Catalog copy is also sometimes in error originally, as the "marketing" people are prone not to check with the "production" people about the specs of the actual production. Nonetheless, it is sometimes all we have to go on absent the physical evidence of the actual guns.
Example: Only the earliest .264's came with 26" barrels. However, the catalogs continued to show the .264 with a 26" barrel for at least a couple of years after all barrels went to 24.4".
Just a reminder that the information in catalogs is frequently out of date at the time of publication. It is not uncommon for catalog copy to remain unchanged for several years in a row during which time the actual productiona specs have changed. Catalog copy is also sometimes in error originally, as the "marketing" people are prone not to check with the "production" people about the specs of the actual production. Nonetheless, it is sometimes all we have to go on absent the physical evidence of the actual guns.
Example: Only the earliest .264's came with 26" barrels. However, the catalogs continued to show the .264 with a 26" barrel for at least a couple of years after all barrels went to 24.4".
Hello to all,
I will put my spoon to the soup, too...
Serial number (sn) around 51000 should be manufactured (m) 1960. as manufacturing 1959 ended to sn 42773 and 1960 ended to sn 54000.
L46 had four versions, I will describe only roughly the differences:
model 1: L42/46, m:1946-1950 sn:1-5100, birch stock, band ring on forearm, firing pinsafety catch on the left side 1946-1948 only 7x33 were manufactured.
model2: L46, m: 1950-1952, sn: 4700-10800. band ring on forearm. First cal 222 Rem manufactured from sn 7033
model 3: L46, m: 1952-1956, sn: 7000-10800. Few guns were made occasionally 1947.
model 4: L46, m:1951-1964, sn:8026-57000. some 1964 to 80700 series.
Improved version of model 2: straight bolt cam, no band ring on forearm, safety catch on the right side. Stock walnut instead of birch.
Stamping:
Before April 5th 1948 finnish legislation did not require any kind of inspections for guns. Finnish shooters association was in leading role to form the inspection regulations for firearms and ammunition. According to these regulations each RIFLE (different regulations for hand guns and shotguns) had to have following marks or stamps:
Barrel
1. manufacturers name or mark
2. LionxB4s head
3. number of manufacture
4. cartridge type (e.g. .222 Rem)
5. inspectorxB4s mark
Receiver
6. manufacturers name or mark
7. LionxB4s head
8. number of manufacture
9. InspectorxB4s mark
10. number of manufacture in full or its last two figures
New inspection law , since 1983, follows C.I.P, recommendations.
This is according to Arma Fennica . At first sight though, manufacturing number on rifle my barrelles are not visible.
KR
I will put my spoon to the soup, too...
Serial number (sn) around 51000 should be manufactured (m) 1960. as manufacturing 1959 ended to sn 42773 and 1960 ended to sn 54000.
L46 had four versions, I will describe only roughly the differences:
model 1: L42/46, m:1946-1950 sn:1-5100, birch stock, band ring on forearm, firing pinsafety catch on the left side 1946-1948 only 7x33 were manufactured.
model2: L46, m: 1950-1952, sn: 4700-10800. band ring on forearm. First cal 222 Rem manufactured from sn 7033
model 3: L46, m: 1952-1956, sn: 7000-10800. Few guns were made occasionally 1947.
model 4: L46, m:1951-1964, sn:8026-57000. some 1964 to 80700 series.
Improved version of model 2: straight bolt cam, no band ring on forearm, safety catch on the right side. Stock walnut instead of birch.
Stamping:
Before April 5th 1948 finnish legislation did not require any kind of inspections for guns. Finnish shooters association was in leading role to form the inspection regulations for firearms and ammunition. According to these regulations each RIFLE (different regulations for hand guns and shotguns) had to have following marks or stamps:
Barrel
1. manufacturers name or mark
2. LionxB4s head
3. number of manufacture
4. cartridge type (e.g. .222 Rem)
5. inspectorxB4s mark
Receiver
6. manufacturers name or mark
7. LionxB4s head
8. number of manufacture
9. InspectorxB4s mark
10. number of manufacture in full or its last two figures
New inspection law , since 1983, follows C.I.P, recommendations.
This is according to Arma Fennica . At first sight though, manufacturing number on rifle my barrelles are not visible.
KR
Hello,
I contacted Mr. Louhisola/Sako today and among other things, asked of these "mystery markings" on Sako Rifles.
Reply was, that the letter/letter combination are initials of Works Manager. The intials of current works manager were stamped to the receiver of every gun, and to the receiver only . This practice was in use during 60xB4s and 70xB4 s, and as a new works manager took his position, the stamp/initials changed accordingly.
Mr. L could not confirm exact years for this practice, but according to him, this was practice at least 1963 as the initial marking can be found on a gun manufactured that year.
hopefully this helps?
KR
I contacted Mr. Louhisola/Sako today and among other things, asked of these "mystery markings" on Sako Rifles.
Reply was, that the letter/letter combination are initials of Works Manager. The intials of current works manager were stamped to the receiver of every gun, and to the receiver only . This practice was in use during 60xB4s and 70xB4 s, and as a new works manager took his position, the stamp/initials changed accordingly.
Mr. L could not confirm exact years for this practice, but according to him, this was practice at least 1963 as the initial marking can be found on a gun manufactured that year.
hopefully this helps?
KR
misako50
Sako-addicted
KR- Thank you for the great effort to help solve the mystery. All of the little bits of information may not seem important to some, but many of us realize how important they are to enhance the story and pass on to future generations. Very nice of Mr. Louhisola to take his time to help.- Regards, Mike
