Heavy Barrel Mannlicher

[Rocky]

This was one of my first purchases when I started collecting Sako's. I wasn't sure what I had so I showed a photo of it here on the Forum and I was told that it was a Mountain Gander special order from Sako. Not sure how many were made but I haven't seen another. They made them in 222, and 243.
I was just cleaning up the safe and thought that I would take some better photo's of it and share them here.
If any other members has a HB Mannlicher please share.

 

[deersako]

Awesome Rocky !

 

[Steve Andrew]

Thats Nice

 

[douglastwo]

Rocky the Rock Island auction catalog from 1996 had one 222 and one 243 available, and the write up stated Gander ordered fifteen in 222 and one in 243. I have no idea if that is the correct number Sako produced for Gander.

 

[deergoose]

They also made them in .308Win, Rocky.
Gander Mountain had a special production run on them, and so did Marshall Fields Department store in Chicago. I read somewhere that the MF gun department was on the 6th floor. They made 18 of them in .243Win and 18 of them in .308Win. I've got two of them in .243, one each in L57 and L579 actions. Are mine 2 of the 18 from MF's ? probably not, but who knows? Are the Gander guns and the MF guns the only ones made? probably not, but who knows?

here's what the records service revealed on the two that I own (I posted this in the records service findings thread):
6) L579 HB Mannlicher in .243Win, #11468: Inspected on 5/14/60, shipped the same day and was one of nineteen (19) .243 rifles in that shipment to Firearms International.

7) L57 HB Mannlicher in .243Win, #8668: Inspected on 8/26/59, shipped the same day and was one of nine (9) .243 rifles in that shipment to FI.

this is cool stuff, and my bet is that less than 50 total rifles were made in .222, .243 and .308 combined. I'd love to post some pics, and will try to do so, but finding the time to do anything has been a real challenge of late !

thanks for the Sako porn! fantastic pics!!
DeerGoose

 

[Rocky]

Thanks for the kind replies. And thanks goose for that information. Great reading, I didn't know all of that, and I didn't know that they made them in 308.

When you find the time to take some photo's and post them here, I'd like to see those 243's.

 

[tripledeuce]

Love the .222!

 

[icebear]

Fascinating combination - heavy barrel, Mannlicher style stock, and no front sight. Very rare indeed. Also interesting that Gander Mountain listed the B&L externally adjustable scope and Kuharsky mount as an option. I have exactly that setup on my Sako .308 Mannlicher-style long rifle. And finally, note the poor proofreading on the Gander Mountain ad - "Varmiter Special"(????). What kind of varmits can you shoot with it? I used to have a .243 Sako sporter that came out of Gander Mountain. It was a good shooter but I sold it a long time ago.

I'd love to find one of those HB Mannlicher-style rifles in .222, but that's pretty unlikely as Arizona is not only a desert, it's a Sako desert.

 

[stonecreek]

Rocky, that very rare rifle looks in outstanding shape.

The Gander Mountain HB Mannlicher is one of the very few Sakos ever custom-built for an American distributor. Perhaps the community can think of more, but here are the ones I'm aware of offhand (not in chronological order):

GO Wholesale A-V in .280 Rem
NRA Rifle of the Year
Cabela's retro Finnbear (Model 85)
King Ranch Edition
Sako Collectors Association Finnwolf

What am I missing?

Of course, there are numerous other proprietary Sakos like the Brownings, Colts, Wards, etc., but I'm talking about special editions which were sold under the Sako name.

 

[deergoose]

ok, here are some pics of my HB fullstocks! Photography is not up to par with Rocky's, but it will do for now. Check out how these rifles are marked......Outside pics tonight were out of the question, as we are getting dumped on by Tropical System Michael. My prayers go out to those on the FL Panhandle! (and the Carolinas for that matter). Enjoy!

DeerGoose

 

[stonecreek]

One of them has the mysterious "N"-marked barrel. Beautiful rifles.

 

[deergoose]

has the mysterious "N"-marked barrel.

Yep !! that's the L57.....And nowhere on the rifle is it stamped "Made in Finland". Go figure.

DeerGoose

 

[Rocky]

My word, two of them!

You know that you have two of the same caliber. I think that my lone 222 would love to have some company so they could become a matched set. What do you think????

BTW, thank for the photo's, very nice rifles!

 

[Harvey Donaldson]

WOW!

Only just seen this thread and I'm very impressed.

Of course the one thing that's missing and would cement my love of a thoroughly fascinating rifle is sight of a couple of 5-shot 100 yard groups of well under 1". Put another way how do these rifles actually perform given the design flies in the face of conventional wisdom in how to build a rifle of benchrest/varminting accuracy?

Yours truly

Harv

 

[icebear]

Full-stock rifles can be very accurate if they are properly bedded, the barrel channels are correctly cut, and the stock wood is not warped. Two of my full-stock Sakos shoot sub-MOA with the right ammo - an AIII carbine in .30-06 and an L469 carbine in .222 Magnum. Both shoot 3/4" groups consistently and have shot cloverleaf groups on occasion. Others are just average in accuracy - adequate for hunting, but not spectacular.

I personally don't believe that 5-shot groups are necessary or appropriate to establish the accuracy of a normal hunting rifle. In the vast majority of hunting situations, the first two shots are the only ones that matter. I normally test light-barreled and/or full-stock rifles with three-round groups. This is especially the case with L46/L469 rifles, which only hold three rounds anyway. Likewise my Krico .30-06 with a 3-round detachable magazine and a pencil barrel. Light barrels heat up quickly. They are not designed for sustained fire, so why hold them to a sustained-fire standard? Things are different if you are talking about a target/varmint rifle, or a military weapon. Then you are looking at a gun that needs to hold its accuracy in sustained fire, and five- or even ten-round groups are the appropriate standard of measure. I would argue that a ten-round group is especially appropriate for a military semiauto, which is going to be used for sustained rapid fire. Few semiautos will hold a tight group for ten rounds, except for purpose-built SPR/DMR weapons.

One thing I just noticed in the photos of the Gander Mountain rifles is that they do not have the usual Sako wrap-around nose caps. They appear to have open-top nose caps, but it's hard to be sure because of the angle at which the rifles were photographed. This is just another way in which the Gander Mountain guns differ from normal Sako products.

 

[stonecreek]

how do these rifles actually perform

I own three Sako Mannlichers (yes, Sako records used the proprietary term "Mannlicher" for the full stock rifles), one each in .222, .243, and .308. All are pre-1968 models. Each of them exhibits accuracy similar to their sporter counterparts, and this is without "tuning" or any other adjustments other than properly torquing the action screws.

I loaned the .308 Mannlicher to one of my European guest last fall to hunt whitetails. They were skeptical about the full stock, having been told that they were inaccurate. After putting a sighter shot through the center of the target bull at 200 yards their reservations disappeared. One of them went on to make a one shot kill on a whitetail and also a one-shot kill on a coyote at 175 yards with the Mannlicher.

 

[Harvey Donaldson]

Full-stock rifles can be very accurate if they are properly bedded, the barrel channels are correctly cut, and the stock wood is not warped. Two of my full-stock Sakos shoot sub-MOA with the right ammo - an AIII carbine in .30-06 and an L469 carbine in .222 Magnum. Both shoot 3/4" groups consistently and have shot cloverleaf groups on occasion. Others are just average in accuracy - adequate for hunting, but not spectacular.

I personally don't believe that 5-shot groups are necessary or appropriate to establish the accuracy of a normal hunting rifle. In the vast majority of hunting situations, the first two shots are the only ones that matter. I normally test light-barreled and/or full-stock rifles with three-round groups. This is especially the case with L46/L469 rifles, which only hold three rounds anyway. Likewise my Krico .30-06 with a 3-round detachable magazine and a pencil barrel. Light barrels heat up quickly. They are not designed for sustained fire, so why hold them to a sustained-fire standard? Things are different if you are talking about a target/varmint rifle, or a military weapon. Then you are looking at a gun that needs to hold its accuracy in sustained fire, and five- or even ten-round groups are the appropriate standard of measure. I would argue that a ten-round group is especially appropriate for a military semiauto, which is going to be used for sustained rapid fire. Few semiautos will hold a tight group for ten rounds, except for purpose-built SPR/DMR weapons.

One thing I just noticed in the photos of the Gander Mountain rifles is that they do not have the usual Sako wrap-around nose caps. They appear to have open-top nose caps, but it's hard to be sure because of the angle at which the rifles were photographed. This is just another way in which the Gander Mountain guns differ from normal Sako products.

I'm all for zeroing for the 1st shot from a cold and even clean barrel if that's what a particular rifle requires.

Harv

 

[stonecreek]

I personally don't believe that 5-shot groups are necessary or appropriate to establish the accuracy of a normal hunting rifle.

I agree. I am confident in three-shot groups to tell me all I need to know about the accuracy of a hunting rifle.

After all, it is the critical first shot from a cold barrel which is most important in a hunting rifle. The second or third shot in the magazine is likely to be at a running animal where precision accuracy is the least of your concerns.

When I shoot a group to adjust the zero on one of my hunting rifles I like to go back an hour or a day later and shoot a single shot from the cold barrel to check the impact point. I'd much prefer a hunting rifle that puts its first shot inside of a 2" circle centered where it is supposed to be than one which shoots half-inch 10-shot groups but has to be "warmed up" with a couple of shots before it shoots where it should.

 

[Harvey Donaldson]

I agree. I am confident in three-shot groups to tell me all I need to know about the accuracy of a hunting rifle.

After all, it is the critical first shot from a cold barrel which is most important in a hunting rifle. The second or third shot in the magazine is likely to be at a running animal where precision accuracy is the least of your concerns.

When I shoot a group to adjust the zero on one of my hunting rifles I like to go back an hour or a day later and shoot a single shot from the cold barrel to check the impact point. I'd much prefer a hunting rifle that puts its first shot inside of a 2" circle centered where it is supposed to be than one which shoots half-inch 10-shot groups but has to be "warmed up" with a couple of shots before it shoots where it should.

Totally agree but I was basing my interest in grouping potential on how this rifle was marketed. As in for the varmint hunter who oft' takes multiple shots in a short space of time and for benchrest shooting.

Harv

 

[Jeffy1]

Totally agree with Stone and Harv. I thought I was the only person in the world who was that clever.