Gun Safes

[ram511]

Members owning gun safes..what criteria was most important to you when shopping for and purchasing a gun safe ? Would you share the model you purchased and your reasons for choosing that particular model??
Thanks
RAM

 

[emmerth]

I have 4 different safes and they are all different. Mine all have different fire ratings, different sizes, differnt weights, different number of bolts (active and non active), door hinges on the outside/inside, type of lock (digital, non digital), thickness of metal, finish type and colors, warranties, etc.

I had a good friend who purchased a top of the line safe with the best fire rating from one of the best manufacturers out there. 3 days after we moved it into his house (but before he moved his guns into it) that part of the house (garage) caught on fire (rags in a pile with paint thinner on them). The safe was melted and twisted like a pretzel. That safe was devasted. No gun or document would have survived in that safe. They said the fire was hot due to the stuff in the garage. The warranty from the safe manufacturer covered replacement of the safe which was nice but he still had to pay some fees and shipping (almost the cost of new safe).

The only advise that I can give is, if you think you need a room for 15 guns, you better buy at least a safe that can support 24 guns. You never have enough room.

Good luck with your purchase.

 

[rowdy]

Welcome Ram511,

Laws are different in every country, here in the UK you need a police approved cabinet/safe BEFORE you get approval to own a firearm. That being said, since you are on this site, and obliviously like Sako built rifles, please do yourself a favour and buy the biggest safe you can afford. In time you will have more than enough Sako's to fill it. Ultimately it will require less time explaining to your wife about how the guns you currently own "just don't fit in as they once did "

Best Regards,

Rowdy

 

[cmjr]

Any safe you buy will be too small, if you have scopes on your rifles I would reduce the stated capacity by at least half. I have 2 of the large Liberty Lincoln's(approx 42x72) plus an actual bank safe that's 48x72 that I converted. Granted most of my rifles carry 12x or greater optics but the most I can safely get in one is about 24, which includes several Martini's(no bolt), and that is really too close for a safe that you are constantly digging into. I've done more damage to my rifles taking them in and out of the safe than I do shooting them. As for fire rating, to me that's a bunch of hooey. Everyone I know(2) that has had a fire that involved their safe, everything in it was totally destroyed. Both of those had safes that were rated at 1200* for a specified length of time, not sure but I think it was 90 minutes. Both bought their safes second hand so there was no warranty from the manufacturer's, one was a Liberty other a Browning.

 

[rowdy]

Amen Cmjr, any safe will be too small, Good points on the thermal/burn time ratings of various safes. I guess alot depends on how close the local fire dept. is located.

Best regards,

Rowdy

 

[m995]

ram511 I started out buying 50 gun safes, now i'm buying 24-30 . Areas of thought // living room = Hotter fire , falls through floor when it burns out , bedroom = hottest fire falls through 2 floors , basement = best location , coolest fire , water drenched , handles weight best , ease of access & humidity are downfalls

Since you are from PA look at the models from Tractor supply for appx. 700. They go on sale for 600. at times Good quaility for what you will pay

 

[mcgrif2243]

Hey all,
My home came with a finished 10' X 15' carpeted storage room under air, on the second floor off of the den. I built racks to store my rifles horizontally and put a Metal security door in. I document all my firearms on a digital card and keep it in a safe deposit box. No safes, I just pay the small amount extra through my homeowners policy for firearms insurance.
Will

 

[asf]

I just got my second safe delivered this week. Both of mine are medium sized and made to hold about 24 guns.
My thought is it's better to get 2 medium sized safes than one giant safe due to ease of moving. You're always going to out grow your safe no matter the size. The guy who moved my new safe in this week agreed (he specializes in safes & claims to have moved over 1500) & said for how much more he has to charge to move a giant safe that he recommends 2 medium safes over one giant one...
Hope that helps.

 

[pk1]

My biggest criteria was making my new wife happy. I owned a few guns but had never owned a safe. My next biggest criteria was having a nice looking safe that could handle the guns that I then owned and had a little room for expansion. I got a safe from Liberty safes. It's fireproof to a certain degree and it's very heavy. So heavy that putting it in the house is about out of the question. I keep it in the garage and have a Golden Rod safe heater inside to keep the moisture out.
I protested when she made me buy the safe but I can honestly say I'm grateful to have it. I can go on extended vacations without fear of losing any of my guns or valuables. Someone could of course steal it or even break into it but it's going to take time and I have other deterrents in place including watchful neighbors and their dogs. We reciprocate.
I suggest you buy from a dealer specializing in safes. That way you can get the ins and outs of what to look for. I'm told that the push button lock is more secure than the rotary dial type. Get the best you can afford.

 

[douglastwo]

RAM

I agree with everyone, you should always buy as large a safe as you can afford and only store half of whatever they say it'll hold. If it's rated 40 guns just plan on putting about 20 in it, that way you can get them out easier to enjoy them. But here's one other thought. Water damage is the s#!ts. So buy one at least 72" tall and build a platform about 12" to 15" tall to stand your guns on so you don't have to stand them on the bottom and risk water damage. Usually water damage from a broken water line will not get much more than 3" or 4" deep before it finds a way out of the house, and if your guns are elevated 12" or so on a platform that may save them. It could be worth the trouble.

 

[northernlights]

A couple of additional thoughts on the use of gun safes:
I put every rifle in my safes in a Bore-Stores silicone impregnated fleece gun sack to protect them from moisture and handling marks in and out of the safe. By doing this I'm actually able to get more rifles in the safe rather then fewer, while still protecting them from handling marks. I put an identifying label on the end of each fleece gun sack and have some (slight!) degree of order in the safe...e.g. all 94s along the back wall, Sakos left to right by caliber, etc...so I easily can find any rifle. (NOTE: Even using the Bore-store fleece protection you can't pack rifles in too tightly and need to be careful because sharp edges like rear sights will poke through 2 layers of fleece with enough pressure.)
I also use 1 or 2 Golden Rod dehumidifiers in each safe. I have the rifles elevated a couple of inches off the safe floor using an inverted vinyl coated wire shelf (Home Depot) and the Goldenrods placed underneath, which enables the flow of warmth upwards. Placing dehumidifying rods underneath like this frees up even more floor space in a safe for rifle storage.

 

[stonecreek]

Amen to multiple safes. No safe is burglar proof. They only cause delay, and the delay is typically enough to prevent burglars, who always want in and out quickly, from successfully breaking into the safe.

Two safes take twice as long to break into as one. Three safes take three times as long. If a burglar attempts to defeat a safe, he will attack the one the appears most vulnerable (or if one is larger than another, he will try the larger first, provided the two appear equally vulnerable.)

You can use this to your advantage by (1) placing one safe in an obvious location where it is easily found, and (2) placing another safe(s) in less conspicuous locations. You can also better protect your more cherished/highly valued guns by putting them in smaller safes located in less visible locations.

The door of the safe is the most frequently attacked, and is also the most attack resistant. The sides and top of the safe are easily cut through (and quickly) with something as simple as a 7" hand-held angle grinder since the heaviest safe walls are only 10 gauge steel (and usually only 12 gauge or less). Therefore, if you can deny access to the walls of the safe this presents a significant deterrent to the burglar. Something as simple as enclosing the safe in framing/wall board seems to baffle would-be intruders. Placing it in a tight-fitting closet also puts the burglar at a physical disadvantage.

As has been pointed out, very few safes are water tight. It is helpful to either elevate the safe (only a couple of inches is usually plenty), or put a riser inside it to keep the guns a few inches off of the safe floor. Most "fire" safes will not survive a fire in which the structure burns to the ground. They will protect the contents from a fire that is brought under control within before the temperature of the fire reaches its peak. It is plain old wall board on the inside that provides the protection. An extra layer of wall board on the outside also provides additional insulation, which is another good reason to frame in a safe and surround it with "sheet rock".

Buy any size safe you wish as an ititial repository. If the gun bug really bites you, you'll be buying another one eventually.

 

[northernlights]

....if you can deny access to the walls of the safe this presents a significant deterrent to the burglar. Something as simple as enclosing the safe in framing/wall board seems to baffle would

Tight framing around a safe is an excellent idea. This significantly adds to the deterrence and delay factor of the safe itself. Consider this: With 3 pieces of 2" pvc pipe any able bodied man can move a loaded safe across a room or garage floor in a matter of minutes! In the case of a garage, add a couple more guys and the safe is tipped into a pick-up and your safe containing your prized rifles is gone in about 5 minutes!!!
Wall board is not considered fireproof. I suggest using DurRoc, which is fireproof cement board. Consider adding a layer of DurRoc around the inside of your safe (and covering with something soft) or to the enclosure you build around your safe for added fire protection.

 

[stonecreek]

Northernlights:

The reason that wallboard is used as the "fireproofing" inside the safe is that it releases water vapor as it heats. So long as the wallboard retains some water and is still releasing water vapor, the interior of the safe is limited to near the 212 degree vaporization point of water. The half-inch or so of gypsum has some insulating properties, but its water content is its most important function. In fact, a cheap and doubly effective riser to place inside the safe would be wallboard cut to the dimensions of the safe floor. Four or six layers of it would raise the gun butts two or three inches above the safe floor and would increase the water vapor capacity of the safe's wall board, thus adding more minutes to the safe's temperature rise time.

Placing a cement-based material inside the safe in addition to the wallboard probably doesn't do much to help. However, as you suggest, placing that cement based material (which is probaby a better insulator than wall board and has no paper shell to combust) on the exterior does provide additional insulation which delays the temperature rise inside the safe. It would also be a little tougher to break/cut through than wall board for the determined burglar.

If you wanted to go to the trouble to completely line the OUTSIDE of your safe with something like Duroc by gluing the Duroc to the safe, it makes a pretty imposing impediment to burglars. The Duroc can't be cut with an acetylene torch, and the combination of two different materials laminated together makes it very tough to effectively use a friction cutter like an angle grinder. Such a project might seem like a lot of trouble, but it would increase both the fire resistance and the attack resistance of your safe. If you feel particularly vulnerable due to your location or other circumstances, such an operation is not very costly in terms of materials and might substantially increase your level of security.

By the way, your observation that a safe which is not bolted securely to the floor is easily moved by rolling it along over PVC pipes is an excellent one. I've moved a lot of heavy stuff around this way, and even a half-ton object (so long as it has a fairly flat base -- like a gun safe) is silly simple to put wherever you want. So, if you haven't securely bolted your safe to the floor with very substantial concrete anchors, you're rather vulnerable. If your only security is to attach to a wooden floor, then you probably need to make provision to attach to the wall, also. The largest lag bolts will pry out using the tipping leverage of the safe itself.

 

[northernlights]

Stonecreek,
Thank you for adding your knowledge and insights on these fire insulating products.

 

[Anonymous]

Good ideas, indeed. I am going to try to build a "safe room" utilizing the fireproof key/pad lock door and line it with steel with reinforcement for the ceiling. After that, look at the proper ventilation and interior wall materials that l might use for fire and storm protection. Won't be quite as big as Will's room, but a similar idea. That way it won't be just for guns and ammo.
My present safe has anchors through the concrete and an industrial adhesive between it and the concrete. Two of the surrounding walls leave only two walls exposed. Alas, it is a Jengo puzzle for fitment and a couple of my rifles are in cases stacked on a shelf above.
S-A

 

[stonecreek]

I considered building a "vault" room when we built our home several years ago but dropped the idea when I became overwhelmed with the more mundane and numerous issues of simply getting a house built -- not to mention the challenge of finding the money to cover the inevitable cost overruns you incur in any building project.

Now my wife is agitating to build a guest house (though she is yet to identify what medium of exchange to use as a substitute for money). If we do launch into such a project I may once again resurrect my vault room concept. My vision was to completely line the room with 8" concrete blocks (themselves filled with rebar and concrete) and put a concrete slab on top of the block walls for a ceiling. Such a room would hardly be impervious, but provided its entrance door was sufficient, your common burglar would never penetrate it. Not only would such a room be exceedingly fire resistant, but it would be a great place to put a safe inside of.

Well, I can dream, can't I?

 

[pk1]

Two things to add. Someone makes a device that contains a small vial of tear gas which will break if there is an attempt to break into a safe. A cheaper but effective alternative is to tape a sign on the outside of the safe that states" WARNING!! HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE BLACK POWDER INSIDE. DO NOT APPLY HEAT"
Sounds corny but I got the idea from a gun shop owner a lot of years ago.
My safe is on the heavy wood pallet that it was delivered on. The floor is made to drain outside so it's doubtful that the water level would ever get high enough to enter the safe.

 

[nbhunter]

One question on storing older Sako's. I keep my guns ( Deluxe mod) stored horizontally so as to not put constent pressure on the recoil pad for fear of crushing the corner. How do you address this when storing guns that have this potential problem in a safe? I thought of devising a way to hang them.
I'm open for advise....( this question has probably been asked before) -thanks.

 

[northernlights]

One question on storing older Sako's. I keep my guns ( Deluxe mod) stored horizontally so as to not put constent pressure on the recoil pad for fear of crushing the corner. How do you address this when storing guns that have this potential problem in a safe? I thought of devising a way to hang them.I'm open for advise....( this question has probably been asked before)

nbhunter...
Stand your older Sakos with the waffle buttpad with the muzzle down.