Short Actions Guidelines for Accuracy

Discussion in 'Sako Short Actions' started by ricksengines, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. Trapper56

    Trapper56 Member

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    I mostly agree with both Paul and Rick ! If you’re going to “dunk” a mounting screw in red (permanent) loc-tite then screw it in, yeah, you’ve just welded it in place! But, if you use a minuscule “dot” of blue non-permanent loc-tite ... (forgot to mention that color earlier)... you will not have problems removing the screw/s later on AS LONG AS YOUR torx or slotted tips fit perfectly, and you don’t use “gorilla torque” tightening them down... Use a torque screwdriver if you’re not sure of the torque you’re applying. 18 inch-pounds is good for “ring screws”... If you look at the screws in a new set of Leupold rings, they apply a “dry dot” of blue loc-tite at the factory... The method I use is about the same as Ryan Cleckner from the NSSF uses. (You can see his instructional video on YouTube...)
    ...But, to each their own ... :)

     

  2. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

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    100% as mentioned, I use blue and have never had an issue removing.
     
  3. kevinlg

    kevinlg Well-Known Member

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    Years ago there was a good article, in Precision Shooting magazine, dealing with lubrication of rifle screws. IIRC.....a slight drop of oil was needed on the screw threads before assembly. The oil would assist during tightening.....but "flow" away from the tightest thread engagements.
    Ever wonder why tight screws "pop" when later removed?? :)

    Also....for Redfield style D-lug/ windage screw set-ups:

    I deburr the front ring D-lug engagement edges, and the engagement edges of the front base. Use anti-seize paste on all surfaces when turning front ring into the base. Turn front ring in, about 100 degrees and back 10 degrees......to minimize any wear/clearance induced into the joint. It's only 12L14 steel.

    At the rear.....solidly screw the rear ring to the "turn-in" bar, while carefully positioning the circular ring recesses with the base windage screw cutouts(windage screws removed). Locate the ring bottom in the center of the base......via depth mic, or other "jig" set-up.
    Be sure to leave the rear ring fully tightened onto the bar, while carefully/progressively tightening the windage screws.......or the ring will slightly rotate counter-clockwise, due to both windage screws being right-hand thread.

    Lastly......I always lap the rings ID's, if possible......because there are no perfect receivers, base(s), rings......when stacked on one another. AND scopes ain't getting any cheaper. But........that's just me. :)

    Hope this helps.
     
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  4. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    Time to talk about some serious reloading equipment!

    We have finally come to one of the last things that you can do to improve accuracy. There are more to come including glass bedding and free floating the barrel and I’ll get to them later. In the mean time I do want to talk about reloading as a means to improving accuracy. Over the years I have found this to be the solution to solving accuracy issues. Before getting into a discussion on what reloading is all about I’ll need to discuss some of the tools of the trade.

    Here is some of the reloading equipment that I still use today. And, yes I am an RCBS guy. I pulled several examples off of Ebay so you can see what these things actually look like and the approximate cost of acquiring used equipment.

    Lyman M5 Scale. Mine is over 40 years old and still works like a champ. Why a scale? Because I weigh every powder charge. I also weigh every bullet and sort them into lots of bullets of the same weight.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lyman-M-5-...845977?hash=item2d193b5099:g:MXoAAOSwII9fejBh

    RCBS Powder Trickler also over 40 years old and functioning fine. This is used to bring the powder charge up to the exact weight. It dispenses one grain of powder at a time.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-Powde...155538?hash=item46b6d57e52:g:~HcAAOSw-6xfep5X

    Various sized loading blocks. These things hold the cases in an upright position for various operations.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RC...354132?hash=item366bb67714:g:xAUAAOSwPZxfcns1

    RCBS Round Primer Tray (automatically flips primers upright when you shake it)

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Primer-Fli...087529?hash=item4db38174e9:g:iRYAAOSwN2RfYqu2

    RCBS Case Mouth Chamfering Tool. This bevels the inside of the case mouth so the bullet seats properly.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-Chamf...986758&hash=item548c50f902:g:wIcAAOSw2WBfcnXT

    I don't ordinarily use a powder measure. I like very precise powder charges and for the 17 caliber stuff I load that is mandatory. You can also go really over the deep end by weighting and sorting the bullets that you use. Sorting the same bullets by weight will give you more consistent accuracy.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-powder...094607&hash=item23e1fcb59d:g:47IAAOSwt4xfd6aG

    You will also need a reloading press and a set of reloading dies that are machined and hardened to the specific caliber you are reloading.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-RCII-...893053?hash=item2f4b7c30bd:g:yXUAAOSwvodfe7ad

    For primer seating I have all of the gizmoes and gagits. My favorite is the RCBS Ram Priming Unit. This little gem mounts on the top of the press and a shell holder slides into the top of it. You install a little gaget on the ram that has a spring loaded seating rod on the thing. When you bring the ram up just slip a primer into the hole in the center of the shell holder and insert an unprimed case into the shell holder. When the handle is pulled down, the ram is raised and the primer is seated. I use this little gizmoe on my strongest RCBS A2 presses and regardless of the case being primed the feel is so sensitive that I have never crushed a primer during the seating operation. These use to be readily available on Ebay.

    The easiest and most efficient is a hand priming tool. Primers are stored is a tray that is attached to the unit and are dispensed one at a time for seating into the primer pocket of the case.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-Hand-Priming-Tool-90200-older-style-White-Box/274512707654?epid=26018881028&hash=item3fea3b8046:g:aSgAAOSwaEhfbR44

    You will also need a small primer pocket cleaning brush to remove the residue of the spent primer assuming that the cases are being reloaded after firing.

    Finally, you will need a reloading manual. There are a lot of them available in the marketplace but with the advent of the internet there is a pleather of loading information available on line.
     
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  5. RangerAV

    RangerAV Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, I've had good luck with Redding's "competition seater" die for some applications... and also with Lee's "factory crimp die" for some applications.

    One of the cartridges I load that actually benefits from both of those together... is the .44 WCF (.44-40), of all things.

    -Chris
     
  6. sakojim

    sakojim Well-Known Member

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    Very good post Rick. Your equipment list matches mine 99%. I would like to add a pointer for perfectionists. Since it is difficult to use a balance scale at eye level to get an accurate picture of perfect balance, I will make the following suggestion. With the scales in a good workable position, place a small mirror directly horizontal at 45 degrees to the scales indicator lines on your side of the scales. Now by looking directly down at the mirror you will be able to trickle powder and see when the lines of the indicator are perfectly aligned. Much easier than trying to bend over to see the lines while trickling powder unless you can possibly use the scales at eye level. It is a sure way to get the same exact measurement of powder every time. Sakojim.
     
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  7. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    Handloading Guidelines

    There are a few things to remember prior to actually making handloads.

    Make sure that you use brass made by the same manufacturer. Don't mix up the headstamps and unprimed brass usually works great unless you have a bunch of once fired cases from previous trips to the range.

    Don't full length resize brass. Neck sizing works great without working the brass to the point that it will require annealing.

    Resizing dies come is several flavors, full length and neck sizing. Full length dies can be adjusted to neck size spent brass and decap the spent primers during the sizing and decapping operation.

    To start with several different primers and powders may be needed to work up a load that shoots accurately so if you can purchase primers one box at a time (100 primers) and one pound of powder.

    Keep in mind that powders burn at different rates so depending on the powder recommendations in the reloading tables I usually pick a powder with a burn rate about in the middle of the table.

    Never start with a maximum load. I usually recommend starting with a load that is a 1/2 grain below the midline load.

    Don't start trying to work up an accurate load by shooting at 100 yards. Instead 50 yards will do just fine for getting started.

    Guns are like kids when it comes to eating vegetables. They like some and others not so much. So a variety of bullet weights and configurations might be needed to be tried before an acceptable load is found. I suggest that the accuracy loads that can be found on the internet for a specific cartridge be an excellent starting point for the beginner. They might end up saving a lot of time and effort in the long run.

    After selecting a specific bullet type and weight be sure to weigh every bullet and group them into lots of specific weights. Commercially produced bullets do vary in weight by one or more grains. These variances can have a devastating effect on accuracy.

    I have much more to add to this list and will do so later.

    rick
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  8. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

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    I have been thinking of mounting a camera on mine with a screen at eye height but I love this idea. Love to see a pic. I think I understand.
     
  9. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

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    Keep these posts coming! It is worth noting that some of the worlds best shooters only full length resize and never neck size only. I can see what you neck size though.
     
  10. RangerAV

    RangerAV Well-Known Member

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    Or a digital scale works pretty well... :)

    -Chris
     
  11. sakojim

    sakojim Well-Known Member

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    Chris, I have had a rather expensive electronic (digital) scale for years. As I have stated before, it does not trickle powder accurately enough for precision loading because the slightest breeze or even your breath toward the scales will change the reading. Another reason is that it uses a electric motor to power the trickler and it does not have the ability to be precise enough for the best possible accuracy. If there are newer and better digital scales on the market that can give the exact same amount of of powder every time, please tell me as I am not aware of any.
    If loading large numbers of reloads for which you do not need close tolerances, (such as plinker or hand gun ammo) they will be faster but less accurate in my opinion. I sometimes use the electronic scales to speed things up by under loading the powder amount and then hand trickling into the balance scale for final accuracy. I also use a very small pointed baby spoon or tweezers to remove powder grains from the scales if I accidentally trickle past the proper amount. Good ways to speed things up if loading a large number of reloads for the best accuracy. Sakojim.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  12. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    That is one great reason why I recommend and use the M5 Scale and the little trickler.

    rick
     
  13. sakojim

    sakojim Well-Known Member

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    I use an old RCBS 10-10 Rick. I am sure there are many other makes and models that are as good or better, but mine has served me well. Sakojim.
     
  14. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

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    I see a lot of guys in the states use the Dandy auto tricker in combination with their powder dispenser that will literally trickle a kernel at a time. Just say they are dumping 26gn, they set their main scale/dispenser to stop 41/42 gn or whatever is quick and easy but will consistently be below the desired weight which is scale/setup dependant, then they trickle the last few gen in with the daisy. Looks very accurate and like a good workflow. That way you get the best out of your expensive scales and use it's features as well as get the accuracy you want. Pretty sure they are $100 US

    Eric Cortina shows here the omega 2 dropping a kernel at a time


    Here is another fella, I don't know of him, using the newer model Dandy trickler and a scale that auto dispenses as I described above where you dump the main bulk then trickle up. Skip to 6:40 of you don't want to listen to his life story :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  15. sakojim

    sakojim Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Rogan. That Dandy demonstration is a great presentation. Great little piece of equipment. My Charge-master readout also 'bounces' a grain from breeze or from breathing toward it. I have a clear cover to avoid that problem.
    Thank you very much, I am sure this will be a great benefit to all hand-loaders who may be lucky enough to get one of these Dandy tricklers. Sakojim.
     
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  16. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

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    Eric Cortina shows here the omega 2

    No worries at all. That is why we all come together, once around a fire :D now online. I can't know everything and experience everything so I come here to learn. By sharing, we don't all need to make the same google searches, the same life mistakes, the same research. We share and refine our knowledge in a melting pot of ideas. Loving these posts! Please keep them coming.
     
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  17. RangerAV

    RangerAV Well-Known Member

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    My digital scale is separate from my powder dispensers... one of which is an electronic thing... and the final trickler, when necessary, is a little manual gizmo where I can almost always do one kernel (for extruded powders) at a time.

    I haven't actually used the electronic dispenser all that often, but I think I remember I had best results setting the charge weight to be something like .2 grain LOW and then using the manual trickler to bump it up to my real target weight.

    And then yes, when close tolerances aren't all that necessary, I even just use a drop-die/dispenser set-up... and live with the plus/minus range it provides. Depending on powders, that usually only varies +/- .2 grain (often less) anyway.

    -Chris
     
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  18. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    If getting an exact weight of powder for every round to be exactly the same is so important, why do many Bench Rest shooters not use a scale at all? I haven't been involved in Bench Rest shooting since the early 1980's but back then, at least, hardly any BR shooters I knew weighed their powder. I just used a powder dipper that I filled the same way each time that I custom made to suit my charge. When loading rounds for hunting, varminting, & informal target shooting other factors have a much greater effect on accuracy than minuscule variations in powder weight. Much ado about nothing, IMHO. Remember, your scale is only accurate to within a tenth of a grain to start with. Just my two cents.
     
  19. RangerAV

    RangerAV Well-Known Member

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    I've read many bench-resters don't use a scale... but I've not seen any correlating info that suggests how many fall into that category, how many actually win, etc...

    Back before digital scales, I'd guess one reason for not bothering might be about speed... but counter-point to that is that speed of loading in advance -- i.e., not while on the range and in a shooting session -- probably wouldn't matter all that much.

    I did do a sort-of test once, comparing velocities between weighed charges and thrown charges... no measurable difference in either velocity or accuracy. IIRC, thrown chargers varied in the area of +/- .3 grain, something like that, certainly no bigger. That was just with Hercules Unique, though, and a handgun cartridge, so not necessarily perfectly relevant. This was back during my silhouette comp days, '70s or maybe very early '80s I guess.... and I can't remember why I tested with Unique instead of something like W296/H110.

    I haven't done as much handloading for rifles, but haven't yet come across a situation where weighing charges would be critical for at least acceptable accuracy (i.e., for hunting at ranges I'm willing to shoot at game). Part of that is probably my appraisement of "suitable range" -- which is pretty modest -- and minute of critter within max point blank range.

    -Chris
     
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  20. Chris Anderson

    Chris Anderson Well-Known Member

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    I just discovered the effect breathing toward my new RCBS electronic scale had yesterday and boy was I surprised. I like to whistle while I work and the scale REALLY didn't like that. While analyzing the scale jumping around issue I also found that just moving my hands anywhere near the scale produced variations in the scale weight readings.

    So not whistling and standing very still until the scale readings settled out was a tough adjustment in my reloading rhythm.

    Learn something every day.
     

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