Ejection Issues Model 85 varmint

Discussion in 'Sako 75, 85 and A7' started by Blackadder, May 20, 2014.

  1. Long Range Shooter

    Long Range Shooter Member

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    This is Sako stand on Ejection or Extraction Problems.... I have since contacted executives at Beretta, who said they are passing my problem onto the lady who is responsible for the rifles... below is the original customer service response from Sako... hopefully this is not the same note I get back from Beretta!

    The 24 hour campfire forum is a good site, but from what they say.... Beretta and Sako are turning their backs on good customers. The note below supports that... sadly.

    Sako-Tikka Ejection Issues

    Answer ID 997 | Published 09/05/2014 04:25 PM | Updated 09/05/2014 04:25 PM
    I purchased a Sako 85 rifle and mounted a scope on it. I'm having issues with spent brass striking the scope. What can I do to resolve this issue?
    Occasionally, we receive customer complaints regarding Sako rifles ejecting spent cases that either strike the scope or strike the scope turret and fall back inside the action of the rifle. This situation is predominately caused by both the scope mounts and type of scope (particularly scopes with extended turrets) installed on the rifle. A secondary consideration is how rigorously the bolt is operated by the user.

    Beretta will not consider rifles that exhibit the condition above to be a warranty issue. Provided that the rifle fully extracts and ejects the spent casing, the rifle will be considered functional and serviceable. Sako Arms cannot anticipate every possible scope mounting configuration when designing their rifles. Since the selection and installation of the scope and mounts are determined by the owner, it is the owner's responsibility to ensure that the system will not interfere with the operation of the rifle.


    An extremely small number of rifles have been returned for service for this issue and our analysis has indicated that the combination of scope mounts, scope type and scope turret location in relation to the ejection path of the spent casing have been the proximate cause creating this condition. In order to alleviate this condition, we recommend that the owner try various scope mounting options to find the one that works best.
     

  2. Gary Fountain

    Gary Fountain Member

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    Thanks 'Long Range Shooter' for taking our concerns to Sako/ Beretta and, as you say, a 'sad' response.

    Sako must know that it is advantageous to have your scope mounted as low as possible and many owners of Sako 85's will use their Optilock mounts. It must also be common for owners of Sako 85's to kit their rifle with a modern scope with modern design turrets. We know that they must be avoiding the ejection issue if they are suggesting that we should mount our scopes higher and only use scopes with small turrets. They're fooling no one. Surely Beretta's 'backward' recommended remedy for the ejection problem must start to negatively damage sales especially in the very popular varmint/benchrest/long range end of the shooting spectrum.

    I, for one, am very disappointed to read the Beretta response you so kindly posted.

    Would it be too difficult for Beretta to produce an aftermarket replacement bolt with the ejector 'moved' to a better location. Perhaps they could sell the bolt at cost price to disappointed owners to actually fix the ejection problem.
     
  3. d500lnn

    d500lnn Well-Known Member

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    This is like over 10 times I've heard of ejection problems from the Sako 85. It effects all ranges of action lengths. I stop at the 75 and actually love the 75 action. I've never had ejection problems from any of the rifles I own. Three 75's (243,300wsm,7mm rm) and one AIII classic in 30-06. All awesome rifles.
     
  4. d500lnn

    d500lnn Well-Known Member

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    This above is total BS! The scope mounts. Try different mounts....crock of s**t
     
  5. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Not only "too difficult" but impossible, as the ejector is not in the bolt but in the bottom part of the action under the rear bridge. It slides thru a slot (at the 6 o'clock position) in the bolt as the bolt is pulled rearward. Changing it's location would require modifications to the action as well as the bolt. Beretta has evidently decided that is an expense they are unwilling to bear. Until this problem kills sales (which apparently it hasn't) Beretta will do nothing. As long as the old "L" & "A" series guns are available on the used gun market I see no need to buy the newer "improved" models while at the same time depriving Beretta of any of my money.
     
  6. Gary Fountain

    Gary Fountain Member

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    Oh well….. looking at it positively, I suppose mine is not as bad as some. I'm generally happy with it as accuracy isn't an issue. I really only use mine at the range as I have said before and I would now only ever use it for a stationary hunting position where a quick follow-up shot would be uncommon. Perhaps I should 'keep an eye out' for a "L" or "A" series in my caliber.

    [​IMG]

    It looked so nice and I was really happy when I bought it - I can't believe I'm considering selling it now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2014
  7. Brock84

    Brock84 Member

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    Hi all, I too have had the same issue with spent casings hitting the scope. Very disappointed. I'm new to shooting and this 85 hunter is my first ever rifle which I expected to be perfect seeing I spend over 3k for the set up. After reading about all the issues and realising berretta are not interested in fixing the problem I looked harder at it myself. I originally tried the tougher spring behind the claw but had no luck with that then I realized it was the clearance they have given between the bolt face and the ejector claw shoulder. I had .030" clearance between the face of the brass and the bolt when engaged in the clip. Berretta sent me a new claw but it was exactly the same so I made my own claw and reduced the clearance to only .002". It now ejects perfectly every time. I hope this helps and I'm sure you will all find an excessive clearance problem too. Not a 5 minute job but can be done. I will try post a photo of the change I made so you can see the difference. Good luck.
     
  8. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Very much interested in your solution. I'm not sure from your description exactly what you did. The ejector is not in the bolt face. I think the "claw" you refer to is the extractor. Is the clearance between the bolt face & extractor tip what you reduced? Did you reduce the clearance from .030" to .028" or all the way down to .oo2"? Did you have to add metal somehow to the extractor to reduce this clearance or did you make a totally new extractor? Pics would be great!!!
     
  9. Brock84

    Brock84 Member

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  10. Brock84

    Brock84 Member

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    Yes sorry the extractor is the piece Im talking about. And also .002" is my clearance now. As the photo shows you can see a significant change in the dimension.
     
  11. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    So, by making this modification (lower one in pic) the rim is held tighter to the bolt face & thus the empty is pushed out by the ejector at a lower angle & misses the scope turret? Did you make that extractor or mod the one Beretta sent you?
     
  12. Brock84

    Brock84 Member

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    That's correct paulsonconstruction the round now ejects straight out the side rather than an upward position. I made the new extractor from scratch out of 4140 high tensile material then flame hardened it. I wasn't sure how much luck I would have keeping the hardness if I modified the original extractor.
     
  13. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Obviously you have skills related to metal work & heat treatment. By flame hardening, I assume you heated to a "color" & then quenched. Did you quench with oil or water & did you use a lime cover after quenching? If one were to weld extra metal to an extractor & machine it couldn't it be heat treated the same way? I have some very limited experience making leaf springs for obsolete guns & am always trying to gain knowledge about "flame" hardening as I have no oven.
     
  14. Brock84

    Brock84 Member

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    I have my own machine shop but am not really experienced with hardening processes. I just went cherry red and quenched with water that was it. Not too sure if that's the correct way to do it but it has gone extremely hard. I would normally send my parts away for nitriding. Sorry can't offer much advise there.
     
  15. deersako

    deersako Well-Known Member

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    Brock84, you may have just solved a problem for many dissatisfied Model 85 owners.
    Many are having the problem discribed with the long actions in chamberings such as 9.3x62.
    You have your own machine shop ?
    Might be worth considering making a run of extractors and putting them up for sale ?

    Good job none the less.
     
  16. sako 22 250

    sako 22 250 Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking the same .....well done!
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
  17. misako50

    misako50 Sako-addicted

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    Brock- brought back a great memory. My first gunsmith made an extractor for me and heated it with a torch before the tempering process. That was nearly 54 yrs ago and that extractor has stood the test of time.-Misako
     
  18. Gary Fountain

    Gary Fountain Member

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    Just a quick update: I finally got around to ordering some extended extractor springs from Greg at Gre-Tan Rifles - very easy to deal with - and fitted one to my rifle. It was relatively easy to fit although the Sako extractor shape had to be modified slightly to fit the hole in the bolt a little better as it was initially a little too hard to dis-assemble from the bolt.

    I also cleaned-up the claw on the extractor to give it a little bit better profile and took a sharp edge off the extractor so the cases entered the bolt head/extractor a little more easily as the bolt picked-up the round prior to it being placed into the barrel prior to firing.

    I also removed one coil from the new extended spring so the extractor, spring and bolt body could be re-assembled.

    It worked - the bolt now holds the cases more securely and tends to throw the cases out of the ejection port at a much improved angle. It still doesn't work as nicely as my Sauer rifle but I am quite happy with the results. A slower cycling of the bolt sometimes won't throw the cases clear of the port but that might be my fault.

    Perhaps I have been lucky to 'fix' my ejection problem as I have read that this 'fix' doesn't work for everyone. I'm much happier with my rifle now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
  19. sako 22 250

    sako 22 250 Well-Known Member

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    Gary ...great to read you have it sorted ,hopefully now you can enjoy the rifle!
    Mark
     
  20. Gary Fountain

    Gary Fountain Member

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    Thanks Mark. On reflection, I did put some time working on the extractor claw reducing thicknesses, filing the leading edge, polishing and reshaping the 'button' pivot and re-profiling to make it hold the case better. I did find metallic 'swarf' under the leading edge of the claw which must have interfered with the claw's ability to grip the case rim. This swarf must have come from the factory. Perhaps I was successful as I not only replaced the spring as well as re-working the claw.
     

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