Ejection Issues Model 85 varmint

Discussion in 'Sako 75, 85 and A7' started by Blackadder, May 20, 2014.

  1. Blackadder

    Blackadder Guest

    I have a 223 in Model 85 purchased new in Oct 2013 which 9 times out of ten won't eject cleanly. Cases are flicked almost vertically where they hit the scope and fall back into the chamber (Usually turned 180 degrees). My scope (Leupold 6.5 - 20 VXiii has target turrets and for a while I thought the larger turrets were the cause, but I watched closely today, and it is the scope body that is causing the issue.
    The gunshop where I bought the rifle played with scope mounts (Burris) without any change.
    Is there a simple answer to this problem?

     

  2. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    The Model 85 ejector is in the bottom of the rear receiver bridge & the slot in the bolt it slides in is in the 6 o'clock position when it makes contact with the case head. This creates a more upward than outward (or sideways) ejection & is probably the culprit here. How the extractor grips the rim has an influence over the angle of ejection. Just a suggestion, but I would try another extractor or modify your extractor so it releases from the rim with less of an upward angle. Pretty easy & cheap to try. Extractors are readily available & easy to switch out. Let us know if you have any luck.
     
  3. Blackadder

    Blackadder Guest

    Thank you for that. There's a retired gunsmith at my club who I'll have a chat to next time I see him.
    I have to say though, that I am very disappointed that a rifle of the quality of Sako would need such modifications to perform a standard function. It's not like anyone would be using the rifle without a scope when it is made without iron sights.
     
  4. 2Barrels

    2Barrels Member

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    paulsoncontruction pretty much nailed it. The 6 0'clock position of the ejector has a lot to do with the extraction issue(s). Suffice to say that relocating the ejector is out of the question.

    Much has been said on other forums about Beretta failing to acknowledge the 85 ejection/extraction issue. It seems Beretta's party line is 'use higher rings and/or move the scope back a forth until you find the right spot.' In other words, they tentatively acknowledge a problem, but have no concrete fix.

    What I have found is that if one replaces the extractor spring with a longer, heavier spring from Gre-Tan Rifles, much of the extraction issue can be eliminated. The springs from Gre-Tan were originally intended for the guys putting the Sako extractor in Rem M700 bolts. What Gre-Tan did was to provide a longer and heavier spring. Longer, because it was not uncommon for guys to drill the hole too deep.

    As it comes from Gre-Tan, the extractor spring is noticeably heavier and 2 coils longer. Trying to install the spring as received, in an 85 bolt will leave one wondering 'how is thing going back together.' However, if a single coil is removed, things go together much better. The shortened spring is stronger than the original and in my experience on 3, Sako 85s, has negated most if not all extraction issues.

    The springs are available from the Gre-Tan web site. Postage will cost more than the spring itself, so order a couple.
     
    Long Range Shooter and Sakogun like this.
  5. Gary Fountain

    Gary Fountain Member

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    I just bought the same rifle and it displays exactly the same traits. Quite a disappointing realisation for me but thanks for posting your observations. I was hoping that I bought a quality rifle without any inherent issues.
     
  6. spearo

    spearo Member

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    If you go onto the "24hrcampfire forum" and do a search......theres some pretty long winded discussions on sako 85 ejection issues.
     
  7. Gary Fountain

    Gary Fountain Member

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    I know this isn't my thread but thanks spearo for your search suggestion and thanks to paulsonconstructio and 2Barrels for your experiences and suggestions. Thanks blackadder for your initial observations.

    Now off to 24hrcampfire for further reading.
     
  8. topgear

    topgear Sako-addicted

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    Firstly let me state my youngest sako is a 1980 A2 so I'm no expert on the 75 and 85 series.

    BUT

    How come its only been the last 6 months or so the ejection issue has been mentioned ? The 85 series have been around for a while. Is it a case that there was recent changes to the extractor which are causing this issue or is it simply its always been a problem and people are now looking for it and hence notice it?
     
  9. sako 22 250

    sako 22 250 Well-Known Member

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    Good point Top gear ... I have 2 85's one 2 years old and one 6 months old and my 2 hunting mates have between them a 270 85 hunter and a 30-06 85 Bavarian all 4 eject flawlessly .. I may be a just a issue with the extra short action as the comments on this forum all seem to be in relation to 223?
    Mark
     
  10. Gary Fountain

    Gary Fountain Member

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    Hi topgear and sako 22 250, you may be perfectly correct, it may only be a short action trait - if 2 rifles can be termed a trait. Mine ejects sometimes but I usually end-up with the case back in the action no matter how slow or fast I work the bolt. I suppose I've only got to turn the rifle upside-down to retrieve the case (can't seem to get my finger in to retrieve it) until I can play with the spring as 2barrels suggests.

    Other than this annoyance, it's a very nice rifle
     
  11. topgear

    topgear Sako-addicted

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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2014
  12. Gary Fountain

    Gary Fountain Member

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    Hi topgear, I didn't really think about the poor ejection of spent cases until I read Blackadder's thread. I just put it down to me not being familiar with my new rifle. I've only put a dozen break-in rounds through it so far. Fire one off then clean, clean, clean. I'm sure you know the drill. I've noticed all but 2 rounds have not ejected. It could be me or it could be the rifle. Personally I think it's the rifle as I don't have this problem with any of my other rifles.

    I haven't looked into the problem close enough to see whether the spent cases are hitting the scope barrel (as in your link) and bouncing back but one or two cases have turned 180 degrees so I suspect they are hitting the scope. I just haven't been thinking about ejection problems when I've had it at the range.

    Now that I'm aware that it may be an ongoing problem I will try to observe the ejection part of the process much more closely. Perhaps it will right itself as it wears-in but looking at other threads with similar problems I think the rifle may need a bit of tweaking as 2barrels suggests.

    This is my second design issue with this rifle so I hope these little surprises stop with this ejection issue. I inquired to Beretta Aust. about the first problem and they seemed to think it was perfectly fine for the pivot pin holding the bolt release lever to be loose and fall out when the action was separated from the stock. The tiny spring behind the lever is then 'set free' to have a life of it's own. That's fine for the spring and Beretta but it can be a real pain in the butt trying to find a spring small enough to replace the 'free' one. Finding the little pin can also be a challenge for us older guys with deteriorating eyesight too - haha. If only Sako had of designed an interference fit for the pin in the first place (seems simple).

    I'm new to Sako and their rifles seem to have a good reputation - perhaps I got a 'Friday arvo. special'?

    Thanks so much for your responses. It seems like you have a lot of experience with Sako and I have much to learn. Sako wouldn't have the large following it does have without a quality product as it's backbone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2014
  13. Long Range Shooter

    Long Range Shooter Member

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  14. Long Range Shooter

    Long Range Shooter Member

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    I have a NEW 85L Sako Finnbear in 300 Winchester Magnum. I mounted a 56mm VX 3L 6.5x20... using Leupold low scope mounts.... The gun WILL NOT EJECT... empties fall back into the chamber. Doesn't matter which type of ammo, how many rounds are in the clip, or whether it is a "snap cap".... Bought at Cabellas and they refuse to allow me to show them the problem... they say "putting a snap cap or spent round into the chamber is against POLICY".... I have taken it to 2 gun smiths... one changed out the extractor and replaced with new... both say it is the Bad Berretta design.... I SENT THE BOLT BACK TO BERRETTA... THEY RETURNED IT AND SAID IT WORKS FINE! ....
    So.... Right now I am out about 4K ( bought alot of reloading supplies with the gun) and stuck between Cabellas and Berretta... both pointing fingers at each other... WHAT A MESS!
    Every other long rifle I have ejects spent shells like a rocket.... this thing just flops them into the chamber!
    ANY HELP WOULD BE VERY WELCOMED, SINCE BERRETTA, NOR CABELLAS WILL.
     
  15. Long Range Shooter

    Long Range Shooter Member

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    Blackadder....

    I purchased a new model 85L from Cabellas in 300 Winchester mag. I Also installed a Leupold 6.5x20 VX - 3 with 56mm close mount crescent configuration.... It WILL NOT eject... not snap caps, not empties, not full rounds.... I have sent the bolt back to Berretta.... because Cabellas refused to allow me to send the entire rifle with scope mounted, which is the ONLY WAY you can see the problem! BTW... because I really liked the gun... I bought more than 100 rounds of ammo and all reloading supplies!!!
    Berretta returned the bolt and said it works fine! I also have letters from gun smiths and also paid to have a new extractor installed in the bolt....... NO CHANGE....
    SO.................... I now have invested $4,000.00 in a SINGLE SHOT SAKO!

    Sorry for all the capitalization, but I think you will all forgive me under the circumstances!
    Oh.... Cabellas also refused to even let me SHOW THEM THE PROBLEM... even with a SNAP CAP or SPENT SHELL.... it is against their policy!

    If anyone has a fix for Berretta's problem........please let me know!
     
  16. Gary Fountain

    Gary Fountain Member

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    Wow! Thanks Long Range Shooter for your ejection experiences. Beretta is starting to sound like one of those big car manufacturers when they are constantly presented with a problem that won't go away - Head in the sand, deny, deny, deny, and it may go away. Prior to your post, I had not considered this type of response by Beretta.

    You really get the impression that once they have got their money, the customer is on their own. It kind of sounds like they think their customers are stupid.

    Personally, my Sako 85 does eject about 40% to 50% of the time, now that I'm getting used to it, and I am getting used to delving into the action to retrieve the empty case but I really want my new SAKO to just work. I don't think I would trust it if it was a larger hunting calibre/rifle. I wouldn't want a spent case getting in the way of cycling a needed follow-up shot. Not so important with my little varmint round.

    I have had a closer look at the ejection sequence of my rifle and the spent cases are all ejecting into the scope barrel and either bouncing back into the action or deflecting away from the rifle.

    I'm sure there would be no ejection problem if these Beretta, SAKO 85's were scope free. It's just hard to imagine non-scoped varmint of medium caliber rifles being used today as the 'norm' as Cabellas and Beretta seem to want their SAKO's configured according to your experiences.

    I really want my SAKO rifle and I looked forward to getting it for quite some time. I want to keep it well into my old age. I spend time cleaning and admiring it every week - I love it so it is very disappointing reading and experiencing these poor design problems.

    If only Beretta understood that they have a pretty loyal following……but loyalties can change. Even a recognition that there is a problem with some of their rifles and they are working to find a satisfactory remedy would generate understanding instead of finding little technicalities that shield them from customers that simply want to demonstrate the problem - like your inability to sensibly deal with Beretta or Cabellas.

    (Something tells me that Beretta knows all about this problem.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2014
  17. 16b410

    16b410 Well-Known Member

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    LRS, It is quite possible that you were told by Cabelas that you can't send the rifle scoped because they were thinking it wouldn't fit in the box - which it would not. However shipping the rifle in a gun case is something they should be able to do, and I would insist that they do. I do hope Beretta can fix the problem for you.
     
  18. Long Range Shooter

    Long Range Shooter Member

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    I have the 300 win mag with 6.5x20x56mm leupold vx 3L low mount scope... unbelievably weak extraction, and empty cases go totally vertical into the scope tube.... I have had 2 gunsmiths look and work on it, because Cabellas won't even let me show them the problem... even with a snap cap or empty case.... policy... sent bolt back to Beretta... they say everything is fine... they wont let me send the gun with the scope mounted, which is the ONLY way you would ever re-create the same issue!
    So............. I now have a $4,000.00 (with $500.00 ammo and reloading for 300 win mag) THAT IS A SINGLE SHOT RIFLE!!!
    BTW... I also sent pics of the mounting directly to Leupold... they say it is perfect... Been shooting longer than I want to admit.... ok... 50+ years and own at least 15 other long guns. No problem ever with any others.
     
  19. 16b410

    16b410 Well-Known Member

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    This is bad business. From what I'm hearing, it is poor design that is creating misery for you and other Sako 85 owners. There is a thread you should read on the excellent 24hourcampfire website. Typing 'Sako 85 ejection failure ' into your search engine will return a hit for that website. Go in and look for the last post on page 13 with a timestamp of 4/17/2013 at 8:32PM. The post shows (with pictures) how one Sako 85 owner solved his problem himself for not alot of money. Good luck.
     
  20. Gary Fountain

    Gary Fountain Member

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    Thanks. I did access the site and read through the advice re the extractor spring. It looks like a pretty straight forward modification and cheap too. After the Christmas period I think I may give this upgrade a go.

    Thank you.
     

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