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Disappointing accuracy from new Sakot 85 Finnlight in .308 Win.

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

almargheim

Active Member
I just got back from my second range session with my new Finnlight 85 Stainless in .308 (with a Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10x40 scope) and I am very disappointed in its accuracy.
The best three shot group that I've been able to shoot with the 85 is a 2 1/8" group with Federal Classic 150 grain soft points. Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain SP cartridges shoot into 3". I regularly shoot sub-MOA groups with the same bench setup with my L579 in .243, my Ruger M77 .223, my Kimber Montana in .308 and my Tikka T3 Lite in .270. In fact, a few minutes before I shot the 2 1/8" group with my 85, I shot a 7/8" group and a 1" group with my Tikka .270 with factory ammo. (I mention all this to assure you that I am capable of shooting sub-MOA groups from the bench.)
One of the main reasons I bought the 85 was because of Sako's claims that the 85 will shoot 1" five-shot groups with at least one factory load. My reasoning is probably wrong, but I hoped that since the rifle is guaranteed to shoot 1" five-shot groups with some factory ammo it would shoot decent groups with most ammo.
Before I contact Sako, I'm going to try some 150 grain Fusion ammo, some 168 grain ammo, and a different scope (the scope is new and has never been used before so it could have problems), but I'm curious what kind of accuracy other Sako 85 owners are getting.
Is anyone out there getting the 1" groups from an 85 Finnlight that Sako guarantees? If so, would you share information about the ammunition that you are using?
Thanks!
Al
P.S. I wish I could correct the typo (Sakot) in the subject line, but I haven't been able to find a way.
 
almargheim: I have 5 Sako 85's in all different models and calibers (243 Win, 270 Win, 270 WSM, 30-06, and 375 H&H) and in the end they all shoot 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards. I have tried many different things with these rifles and had many different failures and successes. I have several comments and suggestions in no particular order:

1. Check the bases and rings of your scope. These are often the culprit of poor accuracy from a good rifle. Ensure they are properly mounted and the tightness of everything is correct. Then, check them again. If you are not comfortable with what you have, get Talley rings and bases. They are the best.

2. Check the 2 action torx screws on the bottom of your rifle just in front of the trigger guard and just behind the magazine. These should be nice and snug. You don't need to go crazy on them and they should not be loose. Also, make sure the firmness of each feels about the same to you. One should not be noticeably tighter than the other.

3. I have found that 3 of my Sakos prefer heavy-for-caliber bullets. As you are shooting the 150 grainers at this time, try some 165's, 168's or 180's.

4. My guns don't like to shoot hot. My routine is to shoot 1 fouler, then wait 6 minutes and shoot a group of 3 with 2 minutes exactly between shots. Put the rifle in the rack vertically (don't leave it horizontal) then wait 6 minutes and shoot your next group of 3 with 2 minutes between shots. Repeat as desired but I don't shoot more than 12 shots in a single session. I have found these times and this pattern to be optimum in my experience for a hunting rifle and it gives the rifle a chance to shoot well without taking too long.

5. My guns don't like to shoot at max or close to max velocities. All of my 85's do their best at mid-range or slightly below mid-range velocities and pressures. Find some ammo that is loaded a bit more mildly and it could help.

The Finnlight has an excellent reputation for accuracy and I would be surprised if you don't get better results with a little more work. Let me know how you do and good luck.
 
Hi,
Thanks for the information. I read recently that someone else's Sako .308 preferred heavier bullets; it's just that my other .308 rifles prefer 150 grain bullets and that's what I had on hand. My next range session will definitely include at least one factory load with heavier bullets. Unfortunately, it's so darn expensive to try different factory ammo these days! Eventually, I will work up some reloads for my 85, but I won't have time to do that before deer season starts in October. If I can't find a factory load that shoots close to 1" groups before deer season I'll have to leave the Sako 85 in the gun safe and use my Kimber 84 Montana.
I have a few followup questions, if you don't mind.
Were you able to achieve 1" 5-shot groups with any factory ammo in any of your Sako 85s?
Why do you recommend putting the rifle in the rack vertically between shots? Is it to allow hot air in the barrel to escape easier?
Thanks for your help.
Al
 
The rifle in the vertical position will cool about twice as fast as it will when horizontal.

Yes, I was able to get good groups with some factory ammo but others shot poorly as you have experienced. I got the best results from the following:

1. Federal standard (blue box) softpoints.

2. Federal Premium Nosler Partition.

3. Federal Premium Sierra Gameking.

Hope this helps.

Also, if you get to your wits end and are ready to throw the rifle in the lake, let me know and I have another idea or two on how we can get things on track. Good luck.
 
Almargheim, you may want to ship your rifle to JB at Accuflite Arms. More than likely, he may be able to determine any problems and a good fix for your rifle. Give him a call. PAT.
 
Does Accuflite Arms do warranty work for Sako? I have to admit that I'm not inclined to pay someone to fix a gun for a problem that should be covered by Sako's warranty. If I can't get the gun to shoot well and Sako won't honor their warranty, it's more likely that I'll sell it than pay someone to fix something Sako should fix.
Thanks for the suggestion, though.
- Al
 
almargheim: clean the bore really well, check your scope bases and rings, and then shoot those heavier bullets... that will be a good start in narrowing your options in what will be required to get the rifle to shoot as it should. you have an inherently accurate caliber in an inherently accurate rifle and I suspect you will find some solutions without too much time or expense
 
Here's another update on load testing with my new Finnlight in 308 Win.
Today I shot a 1 7/8" group with Fusion 165 grain ammo and a 2 1/2" group with Federal Classic 180 grain SP ammo.
Before I went to the range today I confirmed that the scope
bases and rings are tight and the action screws are tight.
Here are all of the five-shot groups recorded with this rifle:
1 7/8" with Fusion 165 grain
2 1/8" with 15 year old Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain
2 1/2" with Federal Classic 180 grain SP
3" with new Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain
Seems like the rifle may prefer 165 grain bullets. My next test will include Nosler Custom 165 grain Accubond ammo and Fusion 150 grain ammo.
- Al
 
Al: while I can relate to the pursuit of the MOA accuracy, now that you have found a load that dropped below 2 inches, that is certainly plenty good for hunting purposes. If you have the inclination to keep working at it, then the suggestion from Misako is a good one regarding swapping the scope out, and also try bullets of different compositions as rifles will sometimes have a preference for a traditional lead core bullet (Gameking or Interlock), a bonded bullet (A-Frame or Oryx), a polymer tipped bullet (Scirocco or Accubond) or a single metal bullet like a Barnes TSX or Nosler ETip.
 
Misako and 5280sakonut,
Thanks for your advice. I had planned on changing scopes and trying bullets with different compositions and got the chance to do both today. First though, I thoroughly cleaned the bore.
I replaced the Bushnell 4200 2.5x10 with a Bushnell Trophy 3x9. The Trophy isn't a great scope (and certainly not one I planned to leave on the Sako very long) but it is a scope that I have confidence in because I have shot many sub-MOA groups with it on a Ruger M77 .223.
Before I shot for group size, I fired one fouling shot.
My test load was the Nosler Custom factory ammo with the 165 grain Accubond bullet. The first four shots went into 1 1/8" giving me much encouragement, but the fifth shot opened the group up to 2 1/8 inches. I waited about 10 minutes between the fourth shot and the fifth shot and made sure the barrel was only slightly warm to the touch. The fifth shot felt good so I was very disappointed to see that it opened the group up by an 1".
The four shot 1 1/8" group is the best the gun has done so far and is certainly good enough for deer hunting.
Unfortunately, it was so warm this afternoon that the barrel was taking quite a while to cool. I usually shoot first thing in the morning when it's cool since that's often the only time of the day that it is calm in South Dakota. (It was calm this afternoon.) Other people were waiting to use the one bench at our 100 yard range, so I had to postpone shooting the 150 grain Fusions.
Next time out I'll shoot another five shot group with the Nosler Custom 165 grain ammo and I'll try the 150 grain Fusions. If either one shoots a good four shot group, I'll hunt with that ammo this year.
When I got back from the range I put the Bushnell 4200 2.5x10 back on the Sako. The 2 1/8" Nosler Accubond group with the Trophy scope suggests to me that the Elite 4200 scope is not the problem.
Peace,
Al
 
That is "kinda" good news,Al . I would be a bit heartsick if a .308 didn't shoot a nice group in any of my sakos.I would be thinking real hard about taking them up on the warranty offer.- Best to you, Misako
 
Al: the good news is that this is modest progress. A 1 1/8" 4 shot group is pretty darn good. It is hard to know what contributed to the 5th shot opening the group up. Could be anything. One thing we value highly is repeatability in how a rifle shoots over time. Meaning that if a rifle will shoot 1/2 inch groups one day but 2 1/2 inch groups the next time out, it is harder to have confidence in taking that rifle hunting and we need to keep working on it. On the other hand, if a rifle will shoot 1 1/2" groups every time out and the groups are symmetrical, then that rifle is probably one that can be counted on. Try duplicating the same shot routine with the same ammo next time you go to the range and shoot another 4 shot group with the Nosler Custom 165 grainers. That will be interesting. Also, take notice of where the fouler is going relative to the 4 shot group. If your fouler is a big flyer, then you will want to know that versus if the fouler groups reasonably well with the 4 shot group. Hang in there.
 
misako50,
Thanks. If I do take them up on their warranty, I'll report back here on the overall experience and the outcome.
- Al
 
5280sakonut,
I agree with you, I am making modest progress. And, thanks for the good advice about keeping track of where the fouler shot goes. I'll do that from now on.
I might be able to appreciate the 1 1/8" 4-shot group more if:
1. I was confident the 1 1/8" group is repeatable.
2. the rifle's accuracy didn't suck with almost every other load I've tried.
3. my expectations hadn't been set fairly high by Sako's warranty.
Whatever else the rifle is, it isn't a tackdriver! It would be nice if Sako included a test target with each rifle documenting the load that demonstrates the rifle meets the accuracy standard (like Weatherby does with their sub-MOA Vanguard model). On their web site Sako says, "When you buy a Sako, you get a thoroughly tested quality rifle. Each
rifle is shot at the factory to make sure it shoots as a Sako should."
On the bright side, this has become a valuable learning experience and it's given me the excuse to go to the range a lot!
I think my next step will be to call Beretta's warranty center and see what they say.
- Al
 
Al: all fair points. Whatever route you choose to pursue, whether it be to keep shooting or to contact the warranty dept, let us know how things turn out.
 
I have a Sako Model 85 in .338 Federal. I have some of the same issues as you do with accuracy. Mine will only shoot Federal factory 200 gr and handloaded 180 Nosler Ballistic Tips (discontinued) into 1 inch or less groups. I have probably wasted 200+ bullets, plus factory ammo trying to get this rifle to shoot to specs. It will not shoot any 210 grain, .338 bullet that I have tried and that has discouraged me from going heavier. I bought the rifle to hunt Roosevelt elk and wanted to shoot heavier bullets but I guess that I will use 200 grain for elk. Or I can use my Weatherby!
 
My .338 Federal is mounted with Leupold Ringmounts (not loose, 222 Lokt-Tited) and a 3-9x42 Kahles scope that shoots 1/2 inch groups with my custom 7mm Mag. The rifle is short and small and has a fairly whippy barrel. It is just plain fussy! Good luck with yours.
 
A couple of updates. First, I rechecked the groups that I've fired with my 85 Finnlight and realized that the best four-shot group that I've fired was 1 3/8" not 1 1/8". This was with the Nosler Custom 165 grain Accubond ammo.
Second, I'm shipping my 85 Finnlight to Beretta today. Since I couldn't find much on the Web regarding people's experience with Beretta and warranty work, I'll share some info here.
I called Beretta Customer
Support at 9:30 AM Central on 09/20/2010. I had to wait on hold for only a few minutes. I spoke with a polite, competent customer service rep by the name of Tony. After asking me questions about my test procedure (the ammo, the setup, the optics, etc.) Tony suggested trying Sako's Optilock bases. I politely declined. Tony told me to go ahead and ship the rifle directly back to Beretta (not to one of the regional service centers). Note that although Beretta doesn't issue RMA's their web site says you must get permission from Beretta before you ship the gun or they treat it as a lower priority.
Tony told me to:
1) Include a short note with specifics.

2) Specify the ammo I tested
with.
3) Mention that I had swapped
scopes and that I cleaned the bore well.

4) Mention that I checked action screws for
tightness.
5) Give them the size of the groups I'm getting with the rifle.
6) Send no accessories (remove the scope and mount).
7) Include a copy of the original receipt. When I told Tony I had lost the receipt in a basement flood he said that was okay, they would date the rifle by the serial number.


I was leary about not including a receipt, so I called Cabela's, told them the situation and Cabela's sent me a copy of their record of the purchase. It's not a receipt, but it establishes that I purchased the rifle in December of last year, within the two-year warranty period.
Tony said when they receive the rifle they will:
1) Clean the fouling from the barrel first.
2) Put the rifle in gun vise and test it with with
Federal Premium 165 grain ammo.
3) If the rifle won't shoot they'll
tear into it and find the problem.

They average a two-to-three week turn around.



Their shipping address is:

Beretta USA
Corp.
Service Department

17601 Beretta Drive
Accokeek, Maryland
20607
Attn Repair Dept.


I'll report back here as more develops.
Al
 
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