Decoding Sako Factory Records

Discussion in 'Factory Records Services' started by Murkula, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Murkula

    Murkula Active Member

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    Here is my first attempt at decoding Sako factory records based on the scanned page posted by Rogan.

    I expected comments (“Huomautuksia”) column to include a lot of the same information that can be found on the product sticker found on the end of Sako factory boxes. For this reason I looked at several photos of these stickers & unmodified rifles from 1960s and 1970s that these stickers came with for clues what the abbreviations in Sako factory records could mean. Other sources used included old parts diagrams for L579 & L61R rifles and Urheilu & Kalastus Oy’s 1965 price list for Sako rifles.

    Two formats have been used for decoding:

    Finnish abbreviation → meaning in Finnish = English translation (additional info in parentheses)
    Finnish abbreviation / word → English translation

    Abbreviations related to rear and front sights:


    at. → avotähtäin = Open sight (Tangent sight, Part No. 3-11)
    dt. → reikätähtäin (diopteri) = Peep Sight (Part No. 961-21)
    lt. → laippatähtäin = Flap sight (Two-leaf express sight, one standing and one folding)
    id. → ilman diopteria = Without Peep Sight (front sight only)
    it. → ilman tähtäimiä = Without sights (no front or rear sight)

    m/Williams
    → Williams rear sight (found on 1974 L61R comments)
    Kiikarikiila → Scope base (Literal translation “scope wedge”, found on VL-63 comments)
    dpt. →
    diopteritähtäin = Peep Sight [likely meaning]

    Hop. jyv.
    → Hopeajyvä = Silver bead (front sight with silver inlay)
    helmij. → Helmijyvä = Pearl bead



    Abbreviations related to stocks:


    Matta → Matte lacquer finish
    Mannl. 20” → Mannlicher stock, 20” barrel
    Mannl. 24” → Mannlicher stock, 24” barrel
    Kumip. → Kumiperälaatta = Rubber recoil pad (Part No. 552-128)


    Miscellaneous abbreviations and information:

    Lukonkehys romu
    → Scrapped receiver
    Lukkol. →Lukkolaite = Action
    Uusi malli → New Model

    R → Raskas = Heavy (indicates heavy barrel) [best guess]
    D → Deluxe [best guess]
    UL → Uusi lukko = New Bolt (found on 1968 L61Rs) [Best guess]
    A-koht. → Asekohtainen / asiakaskohtainen = weapon specific OR customer specific [best guess]


    Abbreviations with currently unknown meanings:

    pt. → ?
    op. → ?
    pp. → ?

    m/9, m/10, m/11, m/20 → ? (related to 1959-1960 L469s,)
    m/14 → ? (related to 1970 L461s)
    m/28 →? (related to 1959-1960 L579s)
    m/40 → ? (related to 1968-1970 L61R Magnums)


    Version History

    8/6/2020 First version
    8/10/2020 Added translations from scans sent by stonecreek, minor edits to previous version
    8/12/2020 Added one translation & one clarification

    Disclaimer:

    I feel quite confident about the decoding [unless otherwise noted], however the only people who know with absolute certainty what all of these markings mean, are those who wrote them into the ledger back in the day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020

  2. Murkula

    Murkula Active Member

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    Green_White_box_label_04.jpg
    Lower right corner shows different sight options, "Hj." and "HI." indicate "Helmijyvä" and "Hopeajyvä" options.
     
  3. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

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    Amazing work there mate! An interesting note that might help in future, mine is labelled DT but also has the rear leaf sight. I wonder if that has something to do with the M28????

    Again, amazing work!
     
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  4. Murkula

    Murkula Active Member

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    Thanks mate, I'm happy to help!

    I also figured that several forum members might be interested in how to interpret these comments and trying to decode these abbreviations would be quite a difficult task for somebody who doesn't speak Finnish fluently.

    M/28 is marked on all comment lines on the L579 scan, the only exceptions being the scrapped receivers and the one rifle with "A-koht. op." comment, so I don't think m/28 is related to the sight set up. The L579 parts diagram I've looked at states: "Peep sight as standard equipment, but available also with tangent rear sight or with both sights, if required.", so it's interesting to hear that your "dt." marked rifle came with both sights.

    I've received several scans of inspection and shipping record for various models from Stonecreek and I will be posting more results after I've had a chance to take a good look at those.
     
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  5. deersako

    deersako Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Murkula, interesting stuff for us non Finnish speakers.

    Cheers
     
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  6. marlin92

    marlin92 Well-Known Member

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    Murkula thank you for taking the time to to this, very enlightening
     
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  7. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant!
     
  8. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    Murkula
    Thanks for an extremely valuable piece of information. I'm sure a lot of our forum members will find it interesting. A couple of questions:
    1. You mention the abbreviation "pt." What is the context where this appears? That seems familiar for some reason, I might be able to help. Could it possibly be "puolitukki" as opposed to "kokotukki?"
    2. What is a "flap sight?" Is that the rear sight with a flip-up leaf, that we would call a flip sight or an express sight? I've posted a photo below.

    If you haven't seen it, you might want to take a look at the "Finnish for the Gun Collector" article that I posted a few months ago. I'd welcome any comments, corrections, or additions you might have.
    Part 1
    https://sakocollectors.com/forum/threads/the-finnish-language-for-the-gun-collector-part-1.14831/
    Part 2
    https://sakocollectors.com/forum/th...ector-part-2-basic-firearms-vocabulary.14873/


    Custom FN-Sako with folding leaf express sight (top rifle). Is this a "flap sight?" (The other rifle is an FN-Sako with a tangent sight.)
    2 Forends.JPG
     
  9. Murkula

    Murkula Active Member

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    Icebear, you’re welcome and thank you for the suggestion what “pt.” might mean!
    Deersako & marlin92 - you're welcome and I'm glad you found the post useful!

    Regarding “pt.” context and meaning:

    Abbreviation “pt.” is found on several comment lines for 1966-1970 L461s, 1970 L579 rifles and L61Rs made between 1963-1964 & 1968 – 1970.
    “pt.” is marked right after the abbreviation denoting sight setup. For example:

    “ dt. pt. m14 ”
    “ it. pt. m14 “
    “ id. pt. m14 Mannl. 20” “
    “ itpt m40 Deluxe”

    “Puolitukki” is a very good suggestion for the meaning of “pt.” abbreviation! There are, however, a few Mannlicher versions in the inspection records with “pt.” comment, so I think we still haven’t found the correct interpretation for this abbreviation. I also ruled out meaning pt. → pähkinäpuutukki = walnut stock, since I don’t think there would be any need to specify this on a 1970s L61R.

    Regarding laippatähtäin / flap sight:

    To the best of my knowledge, the photo you posted is of a sight that Sako called “Laippatähtäin / Flap Sight” on the product stickers. Why this type of sight was named this way is difficult to say– laippa translates to flange, whereas läppä translates to flap. Perhaps the engineer who designed the sight decided to call the sight laippatähtäin and whoever was responsible for translating this to English, wasn’t fluent in both languages and didn’t have a good dictionary available. I’ve heard the term “tankotähtäin” used for this sight in Finland. I think “one leaf express sight” would be the most accurate description for this sight in English.

    I’ll definitely have a look at the “Finnish for the Gun Collector” and see if I can contribute to that!
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
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  10. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    Actually, we would call it a two-leaf express sight, one standing and one folding. I'm still trying to figure out the laippa/läppä vs. flap thing. It seems to me that läppä is a more accurate analog to the actual sight than laippa. The Suursanakirja gives as an example for läppä "the flap of an envelope," This seems to reflect the workings of a folding sight more accurately than laippa, a flange. Perhaps the original word in Finnish was läppä, and the translation as "flap sight" is literally (but not idiomatically) correct, and "laippa" is a typo in Finnish?

    Still thinking about "pt." I think I've seen that somewhere in reference to Finnish military rifles, but I just can't remember where.

    Translating between Finnish and English is a difficult and complex task because the languages are so fundamentally different. You have to think in a different way to put a thought into a sentence in Finnish than you do in English. When I lived in Finland, I often found that if I asked a question in Finnish, the Finn would understand perfectly, and in his answer would re-phrase the question in the way a native speaker would express it. My question would be perfectly correct according to Finnish grammar, and entirely understood, but it just wasn't the way a Finn would say it. I congratulate you on a rather amazing command of both languages, considerably superior to my own.
     
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  11. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    "The Finnish language is proof that aliens have visited Earth".
     
  12. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    When I was in charge of language training at the US Embassy in Helsinki, I suggested in an all-hands memo promoting language training that Finnish grammar was related to Martian. Some high-ranking, politically correct imbecile told me to retract the memo, because it was insulting to the Finns. Our Finnish employees, of course, thought it was hilarious. One of the great things about the Finnish language is that the Finnish people have a sense of humor about it. My Finnish girlfriend always giggled when I would mention "aamutossut" - lit. "morning-slippers." I could never get her to explain why that was so funny. She found my efforts at Finnish to be infinitely amusing.
     
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  13. Murkula

    Murkula Active Member

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    Icebear, now I understand how you know so much Finnish - and thank you for the compliment!

    I think this is a very accurate description of this sight and has been added to the list.

    Many Finns struggle with Finnish syntax, overly long compound words put together from four or more words etc., so we can appreciate how somebody learning Finnish as a second language could have a really hard time.

    I have added a few translations and clarifications to the list and I would also be interested to hear if anybody has suggestions about the meaning of m/8, m/9, m/... markings.
     
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  14. Rogan Kinnear

    Rogan Kinnear Well-Known Member

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    Loving this fin language education gents. Never knew about it. Really appreciate the time you have spent to decode it. I teach a 'sleeping' Aboriginal Australian language with some complex grammar rules and I see the complexity in what your doing and am very thankful!
     

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