Date ranges for Garcia and Stoeger import stamps

[5280sakonut]

All: What were the approximate start and end dates for the Garcia and Stoeger import stamps on the Finnbear rifles? For example, would a 648xx serial number L61R 7mm Rem Mag produced in 1971 be a Garcia rifle or a pre-Garcia rifle?

 

[Anonymous]

5280,
I believe the stamps were required after the Firearms Act of 1968 or 1969. I was overseas in the military those years and am pretty sure it was then. Someone will know for sure, but that will give you an idea.
S-A

 

[Anonymous]

5280,
BTW, if you ever hear the phrase "transition gun" it was one made before the Model '72. 1972 is recognized as more the break than calling it Pre-Garcia. Pre '72 would be more accurate and the rifles of '69 through the end of '71 have shown us more anomalies than any other era of Sako production. If the barrel is stamped with an import stamp then it is what it is although some of the traits of earlier rifles existed beyond that point show up due to depletion of parts in inventory. An example would be like an L61R grooved for a third lug but have only a two lug bolt. They were still produced after the Model '72 for a short time.
Hope this helps.
S-A

 

[5280sakonut]

S-A: Thanks. It would be interesting to know if the stamps showed up right away or if they took some time. For some reason, I thought the Garcia stamps started showing up on rifles in 1972 and the Stoeger stamps started 5-6 years later. This may or may not be close?

 

[Anonymous]

5280,
Yes, they could have been slow ramping up with Garcia but not much. There are some topics on here that explain things a lot better (even some of mine) but I was just trying to give a short version before I shut down. It changed to Stoeger after Stoeger acquired it from Garcia. I have several pre-'72 rifles that are Garcia stamped. Actually, Firearms International got some stamped in there before Garcia and right after the "Act" became law.
Have a good one,
S-A

 

[stonecreek]

Garcia took over importation of Sako sometime in 1971, and Stoeger succeeded them sometime in 1978, importing Sakos until Beretta bought controlling interest in Sako and began doing its own distribution in the U.S.

Firearms International (FI) guns imported between late 1968 and the end of the FI run had "Firearms International, Wash. D.C." etched on the underside of the barrel. All Garcias and Stoegers bore a similar import mark. If it is in the U.S. and it came after 1968, then it will either have an importer's etched mark or will have been imported by an individual (most frequently, a U.S. serviceman serving in Europe, for which there were fairly minimal import restrictions.)

Since Sako serial numbers jump around pretty indiscriminately, it is impossible to say (at least within a reasonably finite range) the serial numbers under any one of the importers. I've seen FI's with higher numbers than Garcias, etc. Garcia did move to a 6-digit SN for the long actions starting approximately 500,000 sometime in the middle of its run, and Stoeger continued that practice. Thus, there are no 5-digit Stoegers in any of the actions, to my knowledge.

 

[5280sakonut]

S-A and Stone: thanks for your comments. Just trying to figure out some of the rifles I'm currently considering for my next buy. Some sellers are very clear and some are very confused and/or misleading and it is hard to tell the difference without taking some time to verify the facts. Well, it is all part of the Sako fun.

 

[mcgrif2243]

Hello 5280sakonut and Stonecreek
Understand your frustration 5280sakonut. PM's to be sent to both of you tomorrow.
All my best,
Will

 

[Anonymous]

5280,
Here is what I wrote in the FAQ section a while back:
"
We refer to pre-72 and post-72 rifles because a major change to the
Sako lineage was made in 1972. This was the "Sako Model 72". It would
be safe to say that most "collectors" are interested in pre- Sako Model
1972 rifles. For the actual purposes of this forum, we only discuss
Sako's up to the "L" series rifles in depth, but also share some
information on all Sako's to the present.
Back on topic, the Sako Model 72 was not a success. Production ran for only nine months before being dropped.
Some of the more familiar differences from pre--72 models were:
1. Scope base dove tails were not checkered, but smooth.
2. A rear barrel sight was installed which had sliding elevation adjustments.
3. Stocks were a yellow-ish to almost orange color with very rough or crude skip line checkering.
4. The metal was not polished properly before bluing and some tool marks seemed to show. Bluing was quite thin.
When
the Model 72 was dropped, Sako improved the rifles to be more like the
pre-72 models with some of the characteristics as in the L series
rifles, minus the 3rd lug on long actions (for one thing). The next
offering came as the Model 74 which proved to be a great improvement.
Please chime in with what you know as this post is only generalized.
Thanks,
S-A"

Stonecreek added comments that he did not agree that the bluing situation was as grim as I depict (#4) and his comments above are spot on. I would change my wording in #4 to: "not as highly polished before bluing".

You can go to the FAQ's to see all comments regarding pre-and post '72 rifles.

S-A

 

[5280sakonut]

S-A: To clarify, my comments were directed at GunsAmerica, GunBroker and GunsInternational online listings and not to this site with which I've had no problems. In fact, I have found the honesty and integrity of the people on the forum to be outstanding. I just bought a rifle from a Forum member and they were a pleasure to deal with and I got an exceptional rifle at a fair price.

 

[5280sakonut]

S-A: I just read the pre-72 and post-72 summary above and it was very helpful. It is starting to make sense as I have looked at many rifles in the past few months and had noted the smooth dovetails and the unusual stock coloration in particular. I do like some of the mid 60's pre-Garcia guns and some of the AV series Stoeger guns. But, there is much more to learn as always...