Couple of sako

Discussion in 'Show us your Sako' started by dustinga, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. dustinga

    dustinga Active Member

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    These two Sakos were outfitted with scopes, bought from members on this site. Thank you northernlights and rangerAV! Left is a 3 lug 25-06 and a 222mag. I know, I know, the -06 scope is too high. But with vintage Sako "high" rings, it was touching the barrel. Which was weird to me, because I've mounted 50mm scopes with vintage high rings on earlier Sako rifles. I guess the heavier contour barrel of the Garcia era wouldn't allow it? 70730.jpeg

     

  2. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    That's why I never use a scope with larger than a 40mm objective. If it's too dark to see it with a 40mm lens set at 6X then it's just simply too dark to be shooting (at least in most U.S. jurisdictions where shooting more than 30 minutes after sundown is prohibited.)
     
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  3. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Try the Extra-Low rings on those Opti-Lock bases.
     
  4. dustinga

    dustinga Active Member

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    Thanks Paulson, I'll certainly try that. Got the rifle right before deer season, so I got excited and used what I had on hand.
     
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  5. Bernie’s Dad

    Bernie’s Dad Well-Known Member

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    How long is the barrel on the 25-06?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. Spaher

    Spaher Member

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    Agree with stonecreek on the size of the objective lens of 40mm being all you need. Larger, 50mm-56mm objectives do allow a little more light but this can be compensated by the use of a wider tube. Larger than 40mm as a field gun greatly exceeds the width of the rifle and increases the "hang up/on" factor on clothing, brush, etc. not to mention more banging and concern of whether sighting in is still true after a hard ding. I am now a believer in a 40mm objective but paired with a 30mm-34mm tube that improves the early and late-fading light. Nightforce no longer makes a 2.5-10X32mm that was meant as a compact and light scope, with its value increased over retail due to its desirability. BTW Leupold makes the 40mm obj with 30mm tube.
     
  7. L579

    L579 Member

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    As far as I know, increased main tube diameter has nothing to do with light performance. That is because the erector system is much smaller than the tube diameter. The advantages of larger tube diameter is more travel and increased strength. If you have sources that explains the light advantages please share because I haven't found any.
    Here in Sweden we can hunt certain species an hour after sundown and some even 24/7. So it's rather common here with large objectives, but I definetly agree with the disadvantages on a field gun you carry a lot.
     
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  8. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    What L579 said! Tube diameter is related to reticle adjustment range & has nothing to do with light enhancement. How much light comes through is dictated by objective lens diameter at a particular magnification. The exit pupil(the amount of light that can come through the scope to your eye) is the diameter of the objective lens divided by the magnification. So the lower the magnification, for any particular lens diameter, the more light & vice versa. A 50 mm scope will let more light in than a 40mm at the same magnification level, but all you have to do is turn the 40mm scope down a little & the same amount light comes through. Neither the 50mm or the 40mm will allow enough light through to see when set at the higher magnifications in low light dawn or dusk conditions anyway, so the 50 & 56mm scopes are just marketing ploys. The exit pupil for a 40mm scope set at 5X is 8mm. The exit pupil for a 50mm scope set at 5X is 10mm. The average human pupil can open to about 6mm, so both scopes can provide more light than your eye's pupil can accept. Both scopes set at 10X will have an exit pupil of 4mm & 5mm resulting in neither giving the amount of light your eye is capable of using. Just food for thought.
     
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  9. Spaher

    Spaher Member

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    Well, I stand corrected....
    I still prefer the larger tube in my anecdotal field outings and many, many late hour harvests have been served well with a heavier reticle (versus a fine duplex type). When one needs to harvest large numbers and minimize trailing (error %'s), results over time show equipment capabilities.
     
  10. dustinga

    dustinga Active Member

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    Bernie's dad- the barrel is the standard 24.4. As far as my preference for objective bell size, I've only been so lucky as to hunt whitetail in Georgia, North Florida, Alabama and Illinois. Based solely on my personal experience, the "trophy" bucks, that I am hunting, will magically appear at first, and last, light. Except Illinois. Where they seem to travel all day. Killed my best buck at 1130 am. Like most jurisdictions, 30 minutes before and after sunset are legal shooting hours, in all these states. I prefer to take advantage of the smidgen of extra light that the 50mm affords. I can remember at least 2 hunts that I attribute the harvest to having a high quality light gathering scope. Also, many times, I hunt in hard wood bottoms on field edges to catch the big bucks staging just before dark. It truly gives an advantage in these situations as light will dissipate well before legal shooting hours. To each his own
     
  11. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Be wary of extra large objectives touted as "light gatherers". As Paulson says, unless you're under 30 years old or so and have never smoked or suffered sun damage to your eyes, then the maximum exit pupil you can use is about 6mm.

    The problem with some large objective scopes is that, although they may have a 50mm (or larger) lens, the effective diameter of the lens may be somewhat smaller. If the ocular lens and the erector system are not optimized for the large objective lens then you may only be "seeing" light hitting the center 40 or 45 mm of the objective.

    Few scope manufacturers publish the actual effective objective lens diameter, and for good reason. It is only when you know the effective objective diameter that you can calculate the actual exit pupil. However, you can measure the actual exit pupil by shining a bright light through the objective and focusing its image on a piece of paper held at proper eye distance behind the ocular lens. You might be surprised (and disappointed) at the size of exit pupil some of these "big" scopes produce.
     
  12. dustinga

    dustinga Active Member

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    Ok fine. I give up. I guess I just like the way that big ol telescope looks, perched up on the rail
     
  13. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Have you actually had both a 40mm & a 50mm scope with you in the same situation & looked through both of them to do an actual real world comparison or are you just basing your opinion an the marketing ads you have read? There are many features other than objective lens diameter that make seeing game in low light conditions easier. Lens quality, lens coatings, reticle style & size, etc. What angle any available light is striking your position, what background is behind your intended target, what color the game animal is are just a few of the variables involved. All I can say is your claim of the added advantage 10mm of extra lens diameter gives is something I have yet to experience. I do, however, seem able to shoot coyotes at night with a full moon on snow covered ground with a 2.5x scope with a 20mm objective diameter lens without difficulty. How I do that is a mystery, as all the new age scope makers tell me that is not possible. But like you said, to each his own.
     
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  14. douglastwo

    douglastwo Well-Known Member

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    How about this factor. Two individuals with the apparent same vision eyesight acuity (i.e. both with 20/20) in my experience with shooting buddies, I noticed that we were often not able to see the same detail when using the same rifle to look at the same target.
     
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  15. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    Douglastwo brings up an excellent point. Eyeballs differ between individuals. Over the past couple of years my vision has deteriorated somewhat due to glaucoma. My once excellent night vision has dropped off quite a bit. I've noticed that while I once paid no attention to the difference between 36mm, 42mm, and larger scopes, now I find that under late afternoon or overcast light conditions, there is a distinct difference between my larger and smaller scopes. I now perceive a real advantage to a Meopta 3-12x56 scope that I picked up on impulse at a show, compared to a 4-12x Leupold (an excellent scope; I have three or four of them). Of course, it's also possible that the advantage is due to the superior coatings and light transmission of the European scope - it's hard to say. But I do know that my aging eyes see better through a larger objective these days, which was not the case even five or ten years ago.
     
  16. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Other than bulk (a largely aesthetic issue) and weight, the primary objection I have to extra large objectives is that they often require mounting so high that the sight picture is misaligned with your eye when your cheek is resting properly on the comb of the stock. This makes them slower and somewhat awkward to use and can cost a hunter a decent shot when game offers only a fleeting opportunity. It also makes them less steady to use when shooting from a rest, thus more difficult to shoot accurately.

    Much European hunting is done by moonlight from fixed stands. Europeans love the 8x56 (with its theoretical 7mm optimum exit pupil) and similar models for this kind of work. Of course, they literally have all night to make the shot from a fixed position, so the awkwardness of the extra high mounting is not such a great disadvantage and they consider the poor stock fit a worthwhile trade-off.

    No one is saying that scopes with large objectives are somehow of lesser quality than those with smaller objectives. Outstanding optics can be found in both. However, a scope simply having a large objective isn't a good indicator that it will be a good low-light performer -- and it will certainly continue to have all of the disadvantages compared to smaller scope when the light is more normal.
     
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  17. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Good points & well stated. My little 2.5x20 Leupold has an 8mm exit pupil, my 4x32 also has an 8mm, 3-9x40 has a 13.3mm @3x, & my 4-12x40 has a 10mm @ 4x. So, looks like that 8x56 Euro has nothing to offer me except a lighter wallet.
     
  18. Bucktote

    Bucktote Well-Known Member

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    My Sako shooting friends,
    I believe for the money there is no better value than Leupold scopes,
    We all have our likes & dislikes, however there is no denying we all age.
    My vision is witness to that! When in my late 50's my Dr. perscribed glasses.
    My ego said no way I need glasses. Comes November, 6,000 acres Wheeler County, glasses in pocket, brisk wind, 50 ft up a GA pine, made my eyes teary. I think I'll put on my glaasses, keep the wind out. Holly ----- there's a deer standing at the fence line!! Scopes are a wonderful aid to us all and the bottom line is we should stop hunting when we can't make a good I.D. of the quarry or make an ethical shot. We all really, know our own limitations. Many scopes out there for sale, whatever makes you happy!!
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021 at 1:26 AM
  19. dustinga

    dustinga Active Member

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    It is extremely possible that my vision plays a part in tricking my brain to believe that the larger objective scope is beneficial. My contacts are like the bottom of a coke bottle. I have not done a side by side comparison in the same conditions. So it is quite possible that the variables were variable when I claim that the 40mm was not as sufficient as the 50. But talk about bulk...... Carrying 2 guns to the deer stand
     
  20. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Some scope makers (marketers) used to use something they called the "twilight factor" to sell scopes. It was some formula which took into account exit pupil combined with magnification. The "twilight factor" was mostly BS, but it is true that, all things being equal, greater magnification allows for better resolution.

    Although 7mm is presumed to be the optimum exit pupil, I've played with a number of variable scopes and found that edging them to just a little higher magnification than provides a 7mm exit pupil slightly improves low light resolution, at least for me. With the typical 3-9x40 variable I've found that a setting of about 7X provides the best low light resolution, even though the exit pupil at that magnification is (theoretically) a bit less than 6mm (5.7mm).

    I don't think this is a result of my pupils being unable to dilate larger since I've found this the case even when I was much younger, have never smoked, have always had good night vision. Many is the time that I've sat in the blind an extra 20 minutes or so past legal light fiddling with my scope (and binoculars), looking over the late coming deer and other critters. Just a tad extra of magnification always seems to help define those shadowy shapes.
     

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