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AV stock bedding

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

After getting my AV carbine I checked to see how it was bedded. Checking forend to see if barrel floated I found a sheet of paper only slid down to about three inches from the end. I found two pressure points built into stock channel. My question is if the rest of barrel floated to receiver. Also are pressure points there to dampen vibration?
 
Sako stocks (at least those pre-Beretta) have never been floated. The way they come from the factory is the way they gained their reputation for accuracy. I would never mess with a Sako's bedding unless something was demonstrably wrong that was causing very poor groups.
 
The thing with action bedding in a wood stock is that it can change over time. Wood changes shape as it dries out or takes in moisture. Stonecreek is correct that older Sako rifles had the barrels bedded into the stock rather than free floated. However, if the stock has warped over the past 40 or 50 years, the result can be unwanted side pressure that destroys the original accuracy. If this is the case, it will be necessary either to restore properly centered bedding or float the barrel.

Unfortunately, the wood used in most older Sako stocks is nowhere near as dense, hard, and stable as American black walnut. Consequently, Sako rifles are vulnerable to climate-induced changes in bedding.

Bedding must be uniform side to side. Typically there will be an upward pressure point near the tip of the fore-end, or offsetting pressure points on either side equidistant from the center. If off-center pressure points develop over time, they will cause a loss of accuracy. I've floated a number of Sako barrels when I've found that they have developed eccentric stock to barrel pressure and I was unable to restore uniform bedding in the original style.
 
Unfortunately, the wood used in most older Sako stocks is nowhere near as dense, hard, and stable as American black walnut. Consequently, Sako rifles are vulnerable to climate-induced changes in bedding.
I've found that to be the case as well. My J.C. Higgins Model 52 (L46), Coltsman 57 (L57) & Coltsman (L61R) all have better quality wood than any of my Sakos except for my AI Varmint from the late 80's. Sako seems to have upgraded their wood during the late 1980's, both structurally & cosmetically. Once you get past the soft, gummy finish period, Sakos stocks are on a par with most other rifles.
 
After free floating, were you able to restore the Sako accuracy or just get it to shoot a little better? Is seems now with all of the manufacturers calling for sub MOA out of the box, most have free floated barrels. Granted, most of those have "plastic" stocks. Wondering if floating and bedding a Sako would correct the accuracy of a rifle that went south. Knowing that a barrel is clean and not shot out, action screws and optics are correct, what else could be done?
 
Quality oil finished walnut
Your's is a late AV which has somewhat better wood than the older A & L series Sakos. It also exhibits a different shape in the forend & grip area. Unfortunately, the finish is a "faux" oil finish that is sprayed on & is called a "satin" finish. A true hand rubbed oil finish is much too slow & costly for a factory production rifle. I have an AI from that era with the "satin" finish & have been able to improve it's appearance & weather resistance by applying (hand rubbed) a very, very light coat of gunstock oil directly over the factory finish from time to time. If you hunt in the rain or snow, I highly recommend it. Whatever product Sako uses doesn't seem to seal the wood all that well. At least not as well as I like it sealed. Just my two cents!
 
After free floating, were you able to restore the Sako accuracy or just get it to shoot a little better? Is seems now with all of the manufacturers calling for sub MOA out of the box, most have free floated barrels. Granted, most of those have "plastic" stocks. Wondering if floating and bedding a Sako would correct the accuracy of a rifle that went south. Knowing that a barrel is clean and not shot out, action screws and optics are correct, what else could be done?
Glass bedding the recoil lug area & the first 1 & 1/2" of barrel after floating can work wonders. Glassing the bottom, not the rear, of the rear tang at the same time is also helpful. Then making sure no other area of the action is touching wood helps insure no stresses are placed on it when tightening the action screws. If you can't get a regular hunting rifle to get acceptable accuracy by doing that, you have other issues to look for.
 
I think bedding is good. Range results at 100 yards. 46.5 grains Reloader 22, 140 grain SGK 2600 fps. Five shot group. I dropped the sixth shot. Seventh shot for scope setting. target_image[1950].jpg
 
It now does not have a faux finish. I have applied several coats of Ballistol and it's absorbed.
That confirms my point about the factory finish not sealing the wood well. Ballistol is a water soluble mineral oil that penetrates wood that isn't sealed. No matter how many coats of Ballistol you apply, it will NEVER fill & seal the pores because, guess what, it's water soluble. That wouldn't happen with a properly applied oil finish, as the pores would be filled & the surface sealed. Believe what you want, but your stock never had an "oil" finish and it still doesn't no matter how much Ballistol you put on it. BTW, I love Ballistol for a lot of things, but finishing a stock is not one of it's beneficial uses.
 
That confirms my point about the factory finish not sealing the wood well. Ballistol is a water soluble mineral oil that penetrates wood that isn't sealed. No matter how many coats of Ballistol you apply, it will NEVER fill & seal the pores because, guess what, it's water soluble. That wouldn't happen with a properly applied oil finish, as the pores would be filled & the surface sealed. Believe what you want, but your stock never had an "oil" finish and it still doesn't no matter how much Ballistol you put on it. BTW, I love Ballistol for a lot of things, but finishing a stock is not one of it's beneficial uses.
Excellent points and in my experience 100% correct. Same with your other post from above.

I’m my experience if an “oil finish “ Sako is marred or scratched the best remedy is to completely strip it and redo it with an actual high quality oil which will penetrate and fill. I’ve stripped original Sako oil completely by hand with no chemicals in an hour or two at most. Obviously finish sanding requires more time. Once refinished properly it is simply outstanding and you can adjust the finish to a sheen to suite your own taste.

Secondly, a Sako “oil finish “ which has no marks or scratches can be finished over with the same results, again using a quality oil. I prefer Pro Custom, as I’ve stated in other threads. I’ve done this process many times and have achieved finishes which are filled, sealed and very weather durable. And once again, it can be at one’s desired luster.

I’m going to do a Classic rifle when time permits. This is a very nice stick of wood, but the finish is very thin and the pores are deep and exposed.
 
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I guess I misunderstood. I would think a sprayed on finish would seal the wood.
One sprayed coat of whatever Sako used simply would not be enough. It takes multiple hand applied or sprayed oil coats to completely fill and seal, unlike polyurethane or lacquer. Take care.
 
I’ve never personally used Danish Oil. It is a tung/linseed based product so it has some similar qualities and properties as products intended for gun stocks.

I’ve had the best results with Pro Custom. (Available at Brownells) I’ve tried several brands over 30 years and simply have had the best results with Pro Custom. I’m sure others will chime in regarding products and techniques which work for them.

Whatever you choose my advice is to cut it with odorless mineral spirits. 60% finish to 40% mineral spirits. Full strength finish is too thick and heavy to apply as thinly as you will need. When it’s thinned it’s much easier to work with. It spreads out evenly and is less streaky. You’ll want to use a few to several hand applied coats and you’ll rub each until almost dry.

Filling and sealing is going to take a few coats at least. A very small amount goes a long way. You’ll also need some 0000 steel wool to lightly buff between coats. I can go into more detail if interested. Just PM me later if interested.
 
Can I rub in Danish oil to finish? What would you suggest?
It's more than just rubbing some oil on. The techniques of an oil finish vary but the basic principles are the same. Several products out there will help seal & weather proof your stock that can be applied over the factory finish. Sean can give you some pointers, but taking on a oil finish re-do is not for the first timer. Best to learn about the process & practice on something else first. Or better yet, hire Sean to do it!!
 
Danish Oil has a product called Rejuvenating Oil that combines finish oils with some kind of cleaning product. I use it on my solid wood furniture about once a year. (My dining room and bedroom sets are finished in Danish Oil.) It works well to get surface grime out of the wood and renew an oil finish. I've only used it once or twice on guns, on old, dirty military stocks that I wanted to clean up some but didn't want to destroy the collector value by stripping and refinishing. The product did have some positive effect, although not as much as I would have liked. For a quick clean-up and polish on an oil finish stock it is a good product, but it will not seal the pores.

I don't care for synthetic finishes of any kind, or for lacquer. I prefer an oil finish that soaks into the wood and brings out the natural grain. An oil finish is also easier to repair than a polyurethane or other finish that sits on top of the wood.

One product you will see quite a bit in gun stores is Tru-Oil, which is made by Birchwood Casey. It's a blend of natural and synthetic oils. It's popular because Birchwood Casey products are in most every gun shop, and it's ready to use out of the bottle. It's good for beginners, but I don't care that much for the final result. I did a couple of guns with it when I first started refinishing stocks, but I don't use it any more except to touch up stocks that were done with it in the first place.

I usually use tung oil to finish a stock, unless I am trying to match an existing or previous finish. It's easy to work with, doesn't discolor very much, and dries reasonably quickly. Linseed is the traditional gunstock finish, but it is slow to dry and can be a pain to work with. "Boiled" linseed oil is heat treated for faster drying, but you still need to thin it and add Japan Dryer to get something you can work with. Back in the day, military stocks were finished by dipping them in a vat of hot, raw linseed oil and then wiping them and hanging them to dry for a week or more. Don't try this at home! Brownell's makes a product called Lin-Speed that is handy for touching up or recoating stocks that are finished with linseed. I use linseed for restoring military stocks that were done that way in the first place, but I much prefer tung oil for sporting rifles. You can get it as pure tung oil, or with additives to give you a high or low gloss or satin finish. I usually put between 10 and 20 coats of thinned oil on a stock or a set of pistol grips.

Grain fillers are available and can be useful, especially if the wood has a very open grain. I have always tended to avoid them, because some fillers can give the grain a hazy or muddy appearance. This depends on the product and the wood. You can also make your own grain filler by adding some sanding dust to thinned oil. I just use more coats of oil. I sand with 400 or even 600 after the first few coats. Later in the process I use bronze wool. I prefer bronze wool to steel wool, which leaves very abrasive shavings. My local Ace Hardware carries bronze wool. As a finishing touch, some stockmakers will rub the stock with rottenstone before the last coat or two. You can get rottenstone from Brownell's or at some hardware or woodworking shops.

I'm not familiar with Pro Custom. Having seen pictures of Sean's work, I'll have to give it a look next time I'm in the market for a jar of gunstock finish.
 
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