Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Sako parts' started by woodman, Jul 10, 2012.
I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these Spanish rings? Any good?
Woodman..I have never used them, but I would tend to think if the rings are made of steel and have enough gap to tighten securely to the scope tube (especially if there is enough to lap), the clamping jaws should be able to do there job.They would be worth a try~Bloo
Funny you should ask. I got a set like that with my L61R in 30-06.
What size are the Clamp screws for these supposed to be?
I am coming up with 2.95mm but the pitch is either not 50 or 60 (looks close to 50), or there is another finer pitch I do not have.
Basically the screws are slightly beat up (and one had an abused slot. So not sure if wrong screws in the wrong threads or just badly done at some point.
Downside is this setup does not seem to clamp right to hold the scope in place (screws are tight even if a bit skewed) and the scope shifts. My take is to get the right screws in a hex head you can clamp it better (lets face it, slot screws are prettty awful for grab whereas hex or roberts, torx that are extremly postive drive types) .
The hinge setup may prevent a good solid straight down clamp. Ok maybe for lighter calibers but maybe not the L61R actions.
I may drill and tap to US standard I can get in hex if I can't find the right metric size.
I may have answered my own questions as well as the posters (use some caution, it seems to line out but I am not an expert in any way or form on small metric screw sizes let alone the following quality comments)
I think the mount is a fairly poor substitute for a real Sako sight (it may work ok, but per the following)
From another post I found this (M3.5X0.6.) describing the screw size.
Checked metric sizes and in 3mm there is 35, 50 and 60 pitch. I believe what this has (and describes) is a 3mm 50 pitch thread (and 6 at the end correlate with the screw length of 6mm)
With that, my take was that the threads on the mount are either badly tapped, have crud from mfg (coating?) process in them or .......... Also the one screw sticks way up above the recess. I did not check if it was the head or the depth of the recess. either way its another poor mfg issue.
I have the 3mm 50 tap, so I tapped one and ran a screw in it. That corrected the weird tightness in there. Screw acted normally in other words where as before it was marring the threads and got tighter as it went in. So all have been tightened with a correct fitting large handle slot screw driver.
So, upshot is that the mount may need to be tapped again for the screws to work right, i.e. go in smoothly without marring hte threads and in affect stopping it form getting tightened up correctly.
I won't know how it does until I shoot it.
Its possible that the front mount is still moving forward (tapered dovetail)
The rear of these sight has a small stud recess so the rear will only move so far forward.
Got it redone, moved the front mounts moved back a bit as the moved tance between the true 1 inch scope tube sections was awfully close to the taper of the scope tube, tightend it up with a full size screw driver and will shoot it in the next week or two and see how it does.
My experience with them is that when selling a rifle I'm better off not having them on said rifle unless I'm selling it to someone that doesn't care. They just don't mesh with most Sako buyers I deal with. They are generally considered a poor counterfeit.
That pretty much says it I think
I took them because they were what I could get with the gun at the time.
Live and learn. If I can't make them work I will buy a set of real ones!
If you are not in a hurry then I would pass per above and buy the good ones.
And amend the pitch information on the screws. It should be .5 (5/10). Not used to smaller metric stuff for correct designation. .5 would be finer than .6 (and finest would be .35)
These rings were on ebay a few weeks ago, I did pass on them.
Interesting, the Spanish rings look to have used a different screw.
I have a digial micormet so I can mesure very accutraely. The screws were 3mm.
I could viusly see the different on the taps between the .5 and .6 pitch, and the screw were the finer oners (though I did try to mix them up at one point so despite knowing better, always better to put the one you know you don't want away!)
The holes would not have taken anything larger, I was suspicious they were the 3mm size because the tape did not thread in the way it should (very rare to find threads not done right on even cheap stuff though again not a lot of experience on the small metric end)
I was able to lay the .5 tap against the screw (not as well as I would like to as the point of the tap is tapered and not as long a thread match as I would like.) What I could get was a spot on match. It all looked to add up so I went for it.
Screws work right now despite them being a bit marred up at the bottom (the worst of the resistance was at the bottom of the hole, either the coating puddled there or they did not finish the taping correctly (or worn out taps in the machinery).
All in all a poor setup. Its possible it will work because I have the tools (though annoying to have some of my stuff at work and too far away to go get). Not a lot of people are going to have that stuff available (or be willing to wreck it which I am knowing that I can drill and tap it to a larger size it would work fine and probably US thread if I did that)
I do like metric measurements, pretty well up on the larger stuff (a lot of machinery comes all metric now). Small stuff is rare I work with. Got schooled on this one!
I am going to see what I can find in a hex head screw, if the head is to large diameter to fit down in the recess that's ok, I can get a longer one that reaches down and get a full thread grip. Could even grind the edge of the clamp down to level and eliminate the recess. Not like these sights bases are going to be worth much.
They make straight cut taps for such tapping endeavors, that would cut to the bottom of the hole.
They make straight cut taps for such tapping endeavors, that would cut to the bottom of the hole.
The hole goes all the way through this mount (have not seen true Sako rings so not sure if they do or not.
The only tap I had was the tapered not the bottoming tap. Actually with the threads so messed up the tapered inserted better than a bottoming one would have.
I wanted to clear all the way through the hole so the tapered worked nicely. Harder to match the threads up (and my pitch gauge was at work).
I have a set of the Spanish rings that came on a rifle I bought. I changed out the scope and used an entirely different ring before shooting the gun, so can't comment on the serviceability of the rings. However, they look fine and seemed to be holding the former scope quite securely. The ring screws are very clearly smaller than the Sako ring screws. However, mine work just fine and apparently haven't seen any abuse.
RC20: Are you sure that the rings you have are not for a 26mm scope tube? If so, that would explain their failure to secure a 1" (25.4mm) tube. By the way, 26mm rings work, if necessary, quite nicely with one-inch tubes simply by using a single thickness of black plastic electrical tape inside each ring -- a poor man's Optilock or Burris Signature.
Late in getting back to this. Work went nuts, some computer crash problem (hopefully resolved).
The rings do have a very small gap (i.e. not fully closed) still, so I believe they are 25.4mm and not 26mm (but was not aware there was such a thing either).
Nice confiramtion the screws are smaller (maybe not good but at least correct about that and in my measurments.
I decided to move the whole scope back to the start of the rear dovetail. That should let the entire scope and moutns move forward and lock. Will see if it is close to the end of the notch with the pin on the mount.
Still puzzled by that setup (another post). Sako obviously had and intent there, it would possibly seem to do what I am doing and set the rear mount flush withe the rear of the doverail. Its fires and moves forward and the pin stops it if it tries to keep going further (and probably pelnty of wedgin action).
More curious than anything. It was suggested grinding the pin off and not worry about where it wound up. Less worried and I like to know what the design intent, obviously they had a method figured out. Maybe seems obvious to them (Sako Europe) and not to someone like me that can't just pick up the phone and call Sven.
RC 20- There is nothing incredibly high tech when referring to the rear mount and it's small projection. Finns have a way of keeping things simple so most of us idiots don't fail easily. The notch and the projection simply make it easy to install the rings in proper order, It also serves as a way to keep the asthetics constant. If you have a scope that needs an extra eighth inch of space, then grind off the little projection and move the rear mount forward. The recoil cancelling feature that may or may not be a part of the design is not necessary for it's existence. Just keep your screws tight and don't worry. They don't move under very harsh conditions.(at least the Sako rings don't, can't speak for the spanish jobs)-Misako
What Misako said. The little recoil lug on the rear ringmount is a belt-and-suspenders approach to scope mounting. Simply torquing your mounting nuts adequately snuggly on both the front and rear mounts will assure that they do not move. If it is in the way of achieving the eye relief you need, then do away with it. No one else uses the little lug on their mounts for the Sako -- for example, Leupold -- yet the Leupolds do fine even though their mounting claw aren't as large or strong as the wedge pieces on the original Sako mount.
I just got a pair of these Spanish rings. They came on a scoped Sako I bought and I will be selling the scope. I have plenty of sets of original Sako rings at various heights, in both 1 inch and 26 mm, and so I don't need to deal with the Spanish set. Good information above. Anybody have rough idea when these Spanish rings were made? Thanks.
I've seen these Spanish rings on two or three of the Dickson-Howa "Golden Bears" (the Sako clone which was marketed by Howa in the mid-to-late 1960's.) That causes me to speculate that they may have been sold with the Howas; or that Howa also marketed the knock-off rings with their knock-off rifles. That is pure speculation on my part, but it does seem that the Spanish rings were on the market around the same time that the Dickson-Howa was on the market.
By the way, I've owned several of the Dickson-Howa rifles and, while not up to Sako standards, I regard them as superior to the run-of-the-mill American-made rifles in the same price range.
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