A Pair of Sako Carbines - One Rare, One Not

[icebear]

Here are my two Sako Mannlicher-style carbines, one small and rare, one large and not so rare. I'm still looking for an L461 carbine in .222 or .222 Magnum and an L579 carbine in .308. I used to have a .308 but a friend wanted it and I was short of money at the time, so it went away. The guy who bought it is an aficionado of fine rifles, so at least it found a good home. The other Sako carbine that would be cool to have would be a Battue, but that model is very hard to find outside Europe. It was mostly designed for the French market, and I'm not sure whether they even make it any more.

I'll also post photos of my rifle-length full-stock Sakos in the next few days.

First is an L469 in .222 Magnum. I lucked into it many years ago at a gun show in Richmond, Virginia. The cost was a bit of a stretch but I had the money and wow, am I glad I decided to buy it! I don't think I've ever seen another detachable-mag .222 Magnum carbine. It is extremely accurate with the right ammo. It shot groups the size of a nickel with Sako factory ammo. Unfortunately, there's no more Sako .222 Mag ammo to be found (I still have a few precious rounds). It didn't get the same results with Remington ammo and none of my handloads ever shot as well as the Sako factory stuff. I haven't shot it in years, but I'm planning to try it out with some of the new Nosler 50 grain loads. These shoot very well in my Sako .222 Mag sporter, also an L469 with a detachable magazine. The scope on the carbine is a Leupold 4-12x, which is a good match for the caliber, in period Sako high rings.

I'm curious as to whether Sako ever made a full-length .222 Magnum rifle with a Mannlicher-style stock. I've never seen or heard of one, but with Sako almost anything is possible. If I ever see such a thing for sale at a semi-reasonable price, it will join the collection. One of these days I'd also like to pick up a heavy-barrel L469 in .222 Magnum. At least I know that one exists. I have an L46 heavy barrel in .222 and an L461 heavy barrel in .222 Magnum, but there's an empty spot in the gun rack for a heavy-barrel "Riihimäki model" with a detachable magazine in .222 Magnum.

The second carbine is one of the more common versions, an AIII in .30-06. It's also very accurate, producing consistent groups well under an inch at 100 yards. It's not much fun to shoot with full-power factory ammo, as muzzle blast and flash are startling. You can kill your deer and barbecue it with one shot. To make the shooting experience more pleasant, I worked up a handload especially for the gun. Using 3031, a fast-burning powder, minimizes flash and muzzle blast as it doesn't expel a lot of unburned powder from the muzzle the way a round designed for a long-barreled rifle would. I loaded it down to an energy rating comparable to a middling .308, which is still more than enough for deer and black bear. The lighter load with a 150-grain bullet is also easy on the shoulder. This load gives consistent 100-yard groups of 3/4 inch or better. The scope on this rifle is a Leupold 1-3/4-6x in what I seem to remember are Warne rings. The rings are quite unusual; not only are they vertically split, but they have indexing tabs that place them at the front of the rear ring and the back of the front ring. This makes an ideal setup for the Leupold, which has a very short tube. I wanted a short, handy scope to go with the short, handy rifle.

First, a few pictures of the .222 Magnum.



And here is the .30-06

 

[deersako]

A fine pair Icebear, thanks for sharing.

 

[ricksengines]

Excellent. Thanks for sharing the pics of them. Both are great.

rick

 

[stonecreek]

Using 3031, a fast-burning powder, minimizes flash and muzzle blast as it doesn't expel a lot of unburned powder from the muzzle

Good point. I typically prefer powders on the slower end of the spectrum for a given cartridge, largely because the fuller case typically yields more consistent velocities and the slower powders also provide optimal velocities. But in the case of a short-barreled rifle (which is going to give up some velocity, anyway), a faster-burning powder can noticeably reduce muzzle blast and flash.

As you point out, the deer won't find much difference in its demise whether shot with a ".308" or a ".30-06", or even a "300 Savage". And since a Mannlicher is designed as a quick-and-close rifle, it typically isn't the rifle you'd pick for long-range sniping to begin with.

 

[icebear]

Stonecreek

Thanks for your comments. I agree with all of the above. One of the great advantages of handloading is that you can tailor a load to a particular firearm. I have a similar "one-gun" load for a .30-06 Winchester 1895 carbine. In that case, the main objective was reducing the recoil of a featherweight .30-06 with a steel buttplate.

The "quick and close" factor that you mention was also what led me to put a relatively low-powered scope on the Sako. It's kind of ironic that the bigger guns generally need the smaller scopes and vice versa. It leads to some issues in mounting. I wouldn't have been able to mount that particular scope on the carbine if I hadn't found the Warne QD rings that are placed very close together.

One scope that I really like for .222 carbines is the Burris Mini. I don't think they make it any more, but it was available in 3-9x, 4-12x, and 6x fixed. I have the 4-12x on a custom .222 Sako and it looks perfect with the smaller rifle, while giving the higher power you want for a varmint cartridge. The only disadvantage is reduced low-light performance due to the smaller objective. But then, if you're doing long-range varmint shooting in iffy light, you're probably not using a short, lightweight rifle. I've got a heavy-barrel L46 with a 6-20x Leupold on it for that chore.

 

[clayt62]

Thanks Icebear for sharing these pictures of the Mannlicher Carbines. You certainly have superb taste; and are right on target too with selecting the ultralight Burris Mini scopes to attach to them (they are my favorite for placing on my Sako rimfires).

Are you still in the market for a Sako Battue ? Am giving serious consideration to putting my NIB Sako Battue in .25-06 on the sale market
soon; will give those within the Sako Collector Club community first dibs for purchasing it. Pictures of it will be likely forthcoming a bit
later this month.

 

[gowyo]

An AI kokotukki remains on my bucket list. I'm looking for a later model with the hunter style stock. I've only seen one example, it was a .222. If I found one of those, I'd be tempted to put a 6x45 Lothar Walther or Lilja tube on it. A .223 I'd keep intact. Maybe, I guess it would depend on several factors. Overall condition and accuracy.

 

[icebear]

Thanks Icebear for sharing these pictures of the Mannlicher Carbines. You certainly have superb taste; and are right on target too with selecting the ultralight Burris Mini scopes to attach to them (they are my favorite for placing on my Sako rimfires).

Are you still in the market for a Sako Battue ? Am giving serious consideration to putting my NIB Sako Battue in .25-06 on the sale market
soon; will give those within the Sako Collector Club community first dibs for purchasing it. Pictures of it will be likely forthcoming a bit
later this month.

PM sent regarding the Battue.

Regarding the Burris Mini scopes, I have several of them on assorted Sakos and rimfire rifles. You very seldom see them for sale on the secondary market these days, and they are long discontinued. The only disadvantage is that they have a rather narrow range of eye relief compared to a Leupold. You have to be very precise in your eye placement. I have Burris Minis in 3-9x, 4-12x, and 6x fixed. I understand there was also a 2-7x and fixed power scopes in 4x and either 8x or 10x, I can't remember which. The 6x with adjustable objective is especially nice for rimfires.

Interestingly, Burris also made the Minis on contract for Pentax. I have a Pentax-branded 4x12 Mini with target turrets that I picked up many years ago at a gun show in Virginia. I'm planning to mount it on a heavy-barrel Ruger 10/22 that I'm building. I don't know if it's identical to the Burris-brand scope or if it has Japanese-made optics.

Burris has a history of working with high-quality overseas optics makers. Currently Burris is building Steiner scopes for sale in the US. They are outwardly identical to comparable Burris models, but I have been told the Steiner scopes have German glass. I have a 2.5-10x Steiner/Burris on my Steyr SSG-69 sniper rifle, and it's a superb optic.

 

[deergoose]

First is an L469 in .222 Magnum. I lucked into it many years ago at a gun show in Richmond, Virginia.

you lucky rat, icebear.......I remember your original post on this rifle from years ago, I too went to that Gun Show in Richmond and missed it by a few hours. I must have been in the jug the night before and went to the show that afternoon, whereas I normally hit the shows first thing. LOL.

Congrats!
DeerGoose

 

[deergoose]

I'm curious as to whether Sako ever made a full-length .222 Magnum rifle with a Mannlicher-style stock.

oh, they made 'em. I have one with one piece full stock.....there are pics of it somewhere here on the forum.

DeerGoose

 

[Jeffy1]

I have a 222 magnum, full stock, in L461. This is rare, but to my experience what deer goose has is exceptionally rare.

 

[deergoose]

The pics I have were easy to find.....for once. L469 full rifle length (not carbine) with 1-piece Mannlicher stock. I lucked into this one. You guessed it, I got this rifle at a Richmond, VA gun show. May have been the same seller as icebear's purchase....

Incidently, icebear's rifle is more scarce than mine. The L46/469 Riihimaki full stocks were dominated by full rifle length configurations. Finding a carbine is a challenge. Not until the L461's did they make the carbines in mass numbers.

DeerGoose

 

[Jeffy1]

Deer goose, you did get lucky on that one, very rare piece. I don't think I have ever seen one of those. I have a one piece stock in a 244.

 

[stonecreek]

Not until the L461's did they make the carbines in mass numbers.

Right! The same is true of the L57/579's. It is very difficult to find a full length Mannlicher in either the L461 or the L579. They exist, but finding one is like panning for gold in the lower Mississippi.

 

[icebear]

Right! The same is true of the L57/579's. It is very difficult to find a full length Mannlicher in either the L461 or the L579. They exist, but finding one is like panning for gold in the lower Mississippi.

L579 - .308. I got this one from an ad in Gun List. The seller was an old rancher in Wyoming who had been using it as a saddle gun for many years. He had removed the front sight so it wouldn't cut a hole in his leather scabbard, but fortunately he had kept it and sent it with the gun, so I had a gunsmith reattach it. I'll never forget this one for another reason - the rancher boxed it up and mailed it directly to me instead of my transfer FFL. I was pretty surprised when I got home from work and saw the box on my front porch - and even more surprised when I opened it, since I thought I was buying a carbine!


L461 - .222. This was a GI bringback from Europe.

 

[Jeffy1]

Sako mannlichers don't seem to command much attention in terms of collecting. However, they are a very fascinating segment of Sako production in which are many rare configurations. There is a rumor that Mims Reed, one of the Sako collector patriarchs, owned 500 of them.

 

[stonecreek]

Sako mannlichers don't seem to command much attention in terms of collecting. However, they are a very fascinating segment of Sako production in which are many rare configurations. There is a rumor that Mims Reed, one of the Sako collector patriarchs, owned 500 of them.

I think that's changing. Mannlichers have been commanding a pretty good premium over the same in a sporter in recent months.

I doubt that Mims ever had 500 Mannlichers, but he told me that he did personally finance the entire lot of the Sako Collectors Club Finnwolfs; so he technically owned them until they were dispersed to the members who bought them. I think there were 175 pairs, IIRC, so that would be 350 rifles -- close to the 500 you mention.

 

[Jeffy1]

Stonecreek, guess you're right, a 308 mannlicher carbine just went off GB for 1925$.

 

[gowyo]

Glad I used the buy it now function for my A2. Seeing those set screw bases fills my heart with dread...

 

[Charles Witt]

Great looking guns, Icebear. The prices on the full stock variety have definitely gone up, especially recently. I only have one (Sako full stock), but it is an interesting one, I think.
Full length. One piece full stock. 308. Bofors.
I would love some opinions on whether or not this stock is original. I bought this gun at an auction from a collector that had many fine Mannlicher style rifles. I also scored a Walther Stutzen in 7x57 that is an absolute stunner. (last picture)