1971 .338win L61 mannlicher- should I?

[NoplacelikeSOIL]

Yes, I've noticed as much so far!

I'll have to do some digging on this site for some physical features used for dating. One thing I noticed in that add and another online, was that they both have Williams front sights with gold inlaid lettering. The 338 I looked at does not have that gold inlay and it may not have said Williams on it. The other one on a site (not the one on the site I posted) also has a checkering style that is a little different than the 338. The 338 has a "border" around the edges and the other seemed to have its lines terminating early depending on whether it was too or bottom... Hard to describe.

 

[NoplacelikeSOIL]

So I gave the seller some of this wonderful information provided by yall and he got back to me and accepted $1600. So I took his bait and bought it.

It may be a little high on price by some standards... But I just really liked the feel and look of the gun, scope, and tag still hanging on it! The way I see it is, if I were to buy a new Mannlicher today, it would cost me 2200 and would have a matte blue finish. Since the gun appears to be unfired and in as close to mint condition as a could expect, then I see it as basically a new one! Theres a couple extremely minor marks in the wood, which also helped my case. Here's some pics.

 

[NoplacelikeSOIL]

And here's the trigger. I think it is a Tikka style trigger, right? Even though it has the over travel screw?

 

[icebear]

I think you paid a fair price for a desirable rifle. It's in high condition, the wood has some tiger stripe to it, it's an uncommon caliber, and the scope and mounts add some value. I would strongly recommend that you handload for it. I have a similar carbine in .30-06, and by playing around with reduced loads of fast-burning powder, I was able to get superb accuracy with much reduced recoil, muzzle blast, and flash.

Enjoy.

 

[bigcountry4me]

What matters is, you’re pleased with it. And, as a bonus you were able to get it at a reasonable price reduction. Always nice to bargain down if possible. Looks like you got a winner.

 

[NoplacelikeSOIL]

I think you paid a fair price for a desirable rifle. It's in high condition, the wood has some tiger stripe to it, it's an uncommon caliber, and the scope and mounts add some value. I would strongly recommend that you handload for it. I have a similar carbine in .30-06, and by playing around with reduced loads of fast-burning powder, I was able to get superb accuracy with much reduced recoil, muzzle blast, and flash.

Enjoy.

Thanks!!

I was thinking that it's about the same on the overbore chart as a .30-06, and generally people consider a 20" barrel to be acceptable but slightly hindering to an '06, so I figured it may be about the same. I do handload, so after I work up the guts to shoot it I'll have to start gathering some dies for it.

I'll need to find the torque specs (if they exist) for all the screws to remove the stock so I can take a look at the trigger and underside.

Thank you all for the help!!! I'm glad to have paid $500 less than his original asking price and I'm excited to have it.

 

[icebear]

Don't sweat the torque specs. Snug the action screws down, then tighten them half a turn or so at a time until they feel tight. Tighten the front screw first, then the rear. If you have a gunsmith's torque driver, the instruction sheet will give you a basic number. If not, use what the Germans call fingerspitzengefühl - "feeling in the fingertips."

Shooting a gun like that with factory ammo is an interesting experience. The flame coming out of the muzzle will kill your deer and barbecue it with one blast. For my .30-06, I selected a moderate load of 3031 and a 150-grain soft point. With a little experimenting, I was getting consistent 100-yard groups under 3/4". I don't have any suggestions for your .338 because I don't load that caliber, but just look for one of the faster powders in the book and a normal to light bullet and you'll be on the right track. The book will tell you you're losing a lot of velocity, but actually you're not. Book velocities are out of a 24-26" barrel and the slow burning powders typically used for a .338 magnum will lose a lot of velocity anyway because they won't burn completely in the short barrel. You might actually get more velocity, or almost as much, with a faster powder in the short barrel.

 

[NoplacelikeSOIL]

Don't sweat the torque specs. Snug the action screws down, then tighten them half a turn or so at a time until they feel tight. Tighten the front screw first, then the rear. If you have a gunsmith's torque driver, the instruction sheet will give you a basic number. If not, use what the Germans call fingerspitzengefühl - "feeling in the fingertips."

Shooting a gun like that with factory ammo is an interesting experience. The flame coming out of the muzzle will kill your deer and barbecue it with one blast. For my .30-06, I selected a moderate load of 3031 and a 150-grain soft point. With a little experimenting, I was getting consistent 100-yard groups under 3/4". I don't have any suggestions for your .338 because I don't load that caliber, but just look for one of the faster powders in the book and a normal to light bullet and you'll be on the right track. The book will tell you you're losing a lot of velocity, but actually you're not. Book velocities are out of a 24-26" barrel and the slow burning powders typically used for a .338 magnum will lose a lot of velocity anyway because they won't burn completely in the short barrel. You might actually get more velocity, or almost as much, with a faster powder in the short barrel.

I did read through the manual that was in the plastic bag attached to the gun, but it didn't mention anything about the action screws or taking it apart. I thought that the torque would be very important for the barrel band and muzzle band... Is it not?

 

[gowyo]

Congrats and what a beautiful carbine. Enjoy!

 

[icebear]

I did read through the manual that was in the plastic bag attached to the gun, but it didn't mention anything about the action screws or taking it apart. I thought that the torque would be very important for the barrel band and muzzle band... Is it not?

The torque on the barrel band will have to be set by trial and error. Conventional wisdom, as transmitted by guys who shoot the military m/39 rifles in competition, is snug but not too tight. That describes how I have my 06 carbine adjusted. Most guns with a barrel band have a sweet spot that you just have to find by experimentation. As for the muzzle cap, the screw just attaches it to the stock. It's threaded into the wood, so it needs to be tight enough to hold but not to start stripping the wood. It shouldn't affect accuracy unless it's loose.

My mention of an instruction sheet was referring to the instructions for the torque driver, not the manual for the gun. Proper torque range for any given size of screw is the same; it doesn't matter what gun it's on.

Don't overthink torque. Getting the tension right on the barrel band is a black art; the rest of it is just common sense.

 

[NoplacelikeSOIL]

The torque on the barrel band will have to be set by trial and error. Conventional wisdom, as transmitted by guys who shoot the military m/39 rifles in competition, is snug but not too tight. That describes how I have my 06 carbine adjusted. Most guns with a barrel band have a sweet spot that you just have to find by experimentation. As for the muzzle cap, the screw just attaches it to the stock. It's threaded into the wood, so it needs to be tight enough to hold but not to start stripping the wood. It shouldn't affect accuracy unless it's loose.

My mention of an instruction sheet was referring to the instructions for the torque driver, not the manual for the gun. Proper torque range for any given size of screw is the same; it doesn't matter what gun it's on.

Don't overthink torque. Getting the tension right on the barrel band is a black art; the rest of it is just common sense.

I didn't realize you were referring to the torque wrench instructions.

I assumed that for a wood stock, unbedded, without pillars, no more than 35-45 would be recommended, as that's a pretty common range. But, I'm a QC manager for a medical device company and have to follow manuals and SOPs to the T haha. But yes... I was referring more to the barrel band I guess. I know that can have a huge effect on what load the barrel tends to prefer, but didn't know if there was a "max" that Sako recommends staying under.

Even though they have incredible manufacturing consistency and tolerances, it somehow makes sense that they might follow the idea of fingerspitzengefühl on that one.

 

[FLT]

Nice rifle, you did well in my opinion.

 

[icebear]

I didn't realize you were referring to the torque wrench instructions.

The instruction sheet for my Wheeler torque driver has recommended torque ranges for common gun screws such as scope ring screws, action screws, etc. Given your occupation I get your desire to have precise specs for everything, but we don't have the FDA breathing down our necks so standards are not quite as rigid for gun collectors. I'm guessing you already have all the torque tools you need, but if you're getting one specifically for guns I recommend the old-fashioned mechanical ones. Before I bought mine I did a survey of web reviews and there were an awful lot of complaints that the digital ones were unreliable. I'm happy with my Wheeler FAT driver, which is reasonably priced, comes with good instructions and several bits, and has been reliable so far. I would imagine that the tools you have available at your job are a lot better than what we would get from the gunsmith supply house for fifty bucks, but I'm just putting this out in case you're interested. Here's a link to the instruction sheet, which gives torque values for common gun screws. BTW your guess of 35-45 for action screws was right on; Wheeler recommends 40.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/E13bWx0ashS.pdf

 

[NoplacelikeSOIL]

Ah yes I have a standard FAT wrench. I always try to find the manufacturer torque specs, but when there are none, I go by feel if it's a delicate material.

Here's a picture of the trigger. Is this the Tikka style trigger? I'd say it is but I don't know what other Sako triggers look like

 

[northernlights]

A very nice Sako rifle in a great caliber! Congrats!!!

 

[NoplacelikeSOIL]

What is the best treatment to upkeep this stock and keep it sealed from the weather? It is an oiled stock, so would the best be Tung oil? Tung oil then paste wax?

 

[paulsonconstruction]

No L61R Sako rifles left the factory with a true "oil" finish. They were all a sprayed on coating of some kind & using an oil that is not compatible could just make a mess of things. All oil finishes are designed to be absorbed "into" the wood, not to be "on" the wood. Imagine a poly coating that won't absorb anything, then a layer of "oil", & then a layer of wax. Not a good recipe! From looking at the pics, the finish seems to be in good shape, so just apply some Renaissance or Johnson's paste wax to the exterior. Coating the interior with a poly type varnish will prevent the stock from absorbing moisture thru the inletting & barrel channel as well.

 

[NoplacelikeSOIL]

No L61R Sako rifles left the factory with a true "oil" finish. They were all a sprayed on coating of some kind & using an oil that is not compatible could just make a mess of things. All oil finishes are designed to be absorbed "into" the wood, not to be "on" the wood. Imagine a poly coating that won't absorb anything, then a layer of "oil", & then a layer of wax. Not a good recipe! From looking at the pics, the finish seems to be in good shape, so just apply some Renaissance or Johnson's paste wax to the exterior. Coating the interior with a poly type varnish will prevent the stock from absorbing moisture thru the inletting & barrel channel as well.

Thanks for the help! So what they're calling an oiled stock on their box label is really not an oil?

It is in near perfect shape, but wanted to give it a little more POI change resistance due to weather. I'll pick up some paste wax.

 

[bigcountry4me]

Thanks for the help! So what they're calling an oiled stock on their box label is really not an oil?

It is in near perfect shape, but wanted to give it a little more POI change resistance due to weather. I'll pick up some paste wax.

The “oil” was/is sprayed on rather than hand rubbed. The method is for production purposes and does the job - but is not as durable nor does it seal nearly as well as a complete process. The labor to hand rub is not cost effective for production rifles, typically this process is done by custom stock makers and some gunsmiths. As paulson has stated wax on, wax off...

 

[coldspring]

Could come in handy in thick brush, tracking dangerous game.