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Scope mount question

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

Just got back from a successful visit to the gunsmith. He was able to remove the "super glued" (literally) screws. Now I need to clean up the mess with some acetone, find some screw plugs for the D&T action and locate a suitable detachable mount.

Thanks all for the guidance!

kbYmaBa.jpg
 
Those are German mounts, but not EAW. The EAW rear base incorporates a lever release to swing the scope out to one side. See photo below. The mounts in the photo above use a different style of mounting in the rear, apparently some kind of clamp. I've seen them once or twice before, but I can't place them for sure. Quite possibly Recknagel, or maybe Akah.

There's no importer for Recknagel that I know of, but if you want to use those mounts, all is not lost. There are a couple of eBay sellers in Germany that sell a large variety of used scope mounts, scopes, sights, etc. and I have seen rings that look like they are for those mounts on eBay. It might take some skilled searching to find them, but you can very likely find the correct rings at a reasonable price on eBay.

My top choice for that gun would be the same setup I have on mine, Warne QD rings. Unfortunately, Warne no longer makes rings for Sako dovetails. You can sometimes find them on eBay or Gunbroker.

Next best would be the old version of Sako Optilock bases and rings. Unlike the current version, these are windage adjustable with Allen set screws. They also pivot so that there cannot be any misalignment of the rings with the scope tube. In my opinion they are vastly superior to the current production Optilocks. You can tell them from the newer Optilocks by the Allen screws on the lower ring half (see picture below). You need to be sure to get the correct version for a long action. The numbers stamped on mine, which I am pretty sure are for a long action, are 1940F and 1940R. They sometimes turn up on eBay or Gunbroker. There's a set on Gunbroker right now with a very low opening bid (maybe a buy it now, I'm not sure) of $52.00, but the description doesn't say which action it's for. I'd buy them myself but I only have two A-series rifles and I'm happy with the scope mounts on both. Those rings were made around the same time as the AV. The bases will completely cover any screw holes left over from the German bases, and the front base positions the ring at the very back of the dovetail, which is handy if you want to use a low to medium power scope with a relatively short tube.

Of course, there are always traditional Sako rings. They work, they look fine, and they are readily obtainable, if expensive. It takes a bit of fiddling to get the windage adjustment right, but once you figure it out, it's not hard.

I personally dislike the Leupold rings for Sako. I'd rather spend the money for real Sako rings, traditional or Optilock. Leupold does make Sako bases for their proprietary QD system. It's a very cool mounting setup but the bases are expensive and hard to find.

And finally, there's always the old Redfield-style base and ring setup with the turn-in rings. Cheap, easy to find, and they work. The one drawback is that the way they work tempts you to use the scope as a wrench when you're installing them, and if the front ring fits too tightly you can stress the tube when you adjust the windage. I personally don't use them, but I've got several sets that I'll sell cheap if anybody wants them.

Here are the EAW swing mounts for Sako.
View attachment 16290 View attachment 16291 View attachment 16292

Another EAW-type ring setup, this one on an FN-Sako. This set is actually a cheap Eastern European clone, but it works the same way as a real EAW mount. Note that this setup puts the scope rather high. Works for me because this rifle has a fairly high cheekpiece and I have prominent cheekbones.
View attachment 16295

And here is the early Sako Optilock base and ring set. Note the Allen screw heads on the lower ring halves. They clamp the ring to a pillar on the base.
View attachment 16293

And here is my AIII carbine in .30-06, with a 1.75-6x Leupold in Warne QD mounts. The Warne mounts have indexing tabs to locate them next to the ejection port.
View attachment 16294

Icebear, thanks for the heads up on the GB auction, however I cannot find them. Do you mind posting a link if they are still there?

Thanks,
Mark
 
You find some idiotic stuff on guns, and screws secured with superglue or red Loctite are two of the most common blunders that a later owner has to fix. A gun screw should never be secured with anything stronger than blue Loctite. I'm happy your gunsmith was able to get those bases off. Pity about the holes in the bridges, but it's otherwise a really nice gun and you should be able to find scope bases that will cover the filled holes. Hopefully the holes are threaded for something like 6-48 or 8-40 so you can fill them with standard plug screws. Those bases are not commonly seen in the USA, which leads me to think they may have been mounted in Europe, If that is the case the threads are probably M3.5 or M4. I've never seen metric plug screws on this side of the Atlantic, so I hope I'm wrong about the threads. You might be able to make suitable plug screws by cutting the heads off regular screws and filing a slot in one end. Brownell's sells a special file for cutting screw slots. I used mine yesterday to make a headless set screw for a model train I was fixing for a friend. If push comes to shove, you may be able to force an inch plug screw into near-matching metric threads, since it doesn't have to hold anything and the screw will be softer than the metal of the receiver. Or, you or your smith could just run a tap into the hole so that a standard plug screw will fit. That would ruin the threads, but again, they don't actually have to hold anything and you can Loctite the plugs. Good luck.
 
Icebear, thanks for the heads up on the GB auction, however I cannot find them. Do you mind posting a link if they are still there?

Thanks,
Mark
Here you are. Fortunately, I had it on watch. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/807643404
It's an auction, not a buy it now, and it closes in a couple of days. Those rings have been on GB for several weeks with no bids so your chances of snagging them are pretty good. You might want to e-mail the seller to see if he knows if the bases are correct for a long action (L61R, AIII, AV). You could also ask him for the part numbers on the bottom. I'm not sure how the sizing works on those particular rings.

Note that these are nominally low rings. However, the newer Sako rings are higher than most at any given nominal size, so the low rings will probably be enough for a typical 40mm objective scope. I prefer something smaller on a carbine anyway; my choice would be a 1.75-6x or 2.5-8x Leupold VX-III, both of which have a 36mm objective if I remember correctly. Or even a 1.5-5x, which has no objective bell at all. I've got one of those on my 9.3x62 Sako and it's a good scope if you don't need a lot of power.
 
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Mtang45, just a suggestion as the holes are already there, find the set of rings to suit the bases you took off.
Someone in their wisdom has also milled/extended a little slot out of the rear dovetail.
 
Mtang45, just a suggestion as the holes are already there, find the set of rings to suit the bases you took off.
Someone in their wisdom has also milled/extended a little slot out of the rear dovetail.

deersako, are you talking about this area? I was wondering if that was original or not.

Dz8XwbY.jpg


icebear, thanks for the link. I have sent the question to the seller.


Mark
 
Yes Mark, that short narrower slot.
Does that correspond with a lug on that rear base you took off ?
 
Here you are. Fortunately, I had it on watch. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/807643404
It's an auction, not a buy it now, and it closes in a couple of days. Those rings have been on GB for several weeks with no bids so your chances of snagging them are pretty good. You might want to e-mail the seller to see if he knows if the bases are correct for a long action (L61R, AIII, AV). You could also ask him for the part numbers on the bottom. I'm not sure how the sizing works on those particular rings.

Note that these are nominally low rings. However, the newer Sako rings are higher than most at any given nominal size, so the low rings will probably be enough for a typical 40mm objective scope. I prefer something smaller on a carbine anyway; my choice would be a 1.75-6x or 2.5-8x Leupold VX-III, both of which have a 36mm objective if I remember correctly. Or even a 1.5-5x, which has no objective bell at all. I've got one of those on my 9.3x62 Sako and it's a good scope if you don't need a lot of power.

icebear, any possibility there may be 30mm rings available for the bases that are on the GB auction? I asked the seller what they fit and they answered "any dovetail receiver such as Vixen, Finnbear, etc.". The scope I was planning on using is 30mm. So I may pick those up for the bases, if there are 30mm rings available for the bases.
 
So the nitwit drilled and tapped the dovetails. My advice is to put filler screws in the holes and get a set of Sako or Leupold dovetail mounts and install them.

rick
 
icebear, any possibility there may be 30mm rings available for the bases that are on the GB auction? I asked the seller what they fit and they answered "any dovetail receiver such as Vixen, Finnbear, etc.". The scope I was planning on using is 30mm. So I may pick those up for the bases, if there are 30mm rings available for the bases.
It might be difficult to find 30mm rings separate from the bases. I don't even know if they were marketed separately, or only packaged with bases. Those bases are long discontinued; I imagine that rings for them show up from time to time on eBay and Gunbroker, but how often is the question. I'm fairly confident that 30mm rings for those bases exist, but how common they are or where to get them is another question entirely. I believe there were also Tikka mounts made that used the same rings, so if you found a set of Tikka mounts with the rings you wanted, you could get those and just use the rings.

If you are set on that 30mm scope, you might be just as likely to find the 30mm rings for sale with the bases as separately. It's kind of a decision matrix, risk vs. reward. Depends on your priorities. Have you scanned eBay for two-piece Optilock mounts? There are usually some for sale. I don't like the newer Optilocks as well as the older ones we are discussing, but they will cover the holes and you can get 30mm rings. As far as I know, the old-style traditional Sako rings were only made in 1" and 26mm, so that would not be an option.
 
Of course it is :) !
Get the rings to suit those bases !
Needle in a haystack, mate. I've been collecting oddball European rifles for a long time and I've never seen bases like that except on guns that were put together in Germany or Austria. I'm fairly sure they are Recknagel, which as far as I know has never had an importer/distributor in the USA. You can, of course, order them from Europe, but that would be more expensive than buying brand new Optilock mounts, which IMHO are a better option. There are a couple of German vendors who sell secondhand goods on eBay, but that could be risky for a non-expert to be sure he was ordering the right parts.
 
How about here icebear -

https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/products.php?cat=280

Just trying to get mtang45 on the right track, he has the bases, and those damn holes.
Thanks for pointing that out. I don't recall seeing that page the last time I looked at the NECG website. I had extensive contact with them a year or so ago in sorting out some issues with EAW mounts that turned out not to be genuine. Good people. There's no link with the picture of the pivot mount. I doubt they even stock the pivot mounts and rings - the page emphasizes the Picatinny products, and those links work. The text says we can help you find what you need - no ordering info for the pivot mounts. NECG is a great resource, but they are a low-volume, high-price operation - real old-fashioned carriage trade. Those rings will be expensive, I'll wager - I'd guess at least double the cost of Optilocks. And probably a long wait to order them from the factory. If mtang45 wants to pursue that option, he needs to have a long conversation with somebody at NECG to make sure those really are Recknagel bases, and exactly what rings would be needed. Those are NOT Sako bases as such; they are flat-bottom universal bases, probably made for square-bridge Mausers, old Tikkas, and whatever else with a flat top. If it were my gun, I might look into it, though - you have a good point that the bases are already there, and it's definitely a quality product. And you'd have something nobody else has, that's for sure. I wonder if those mounting blocks are actually low enough to use the iron sights. They look like they might be.
 
Thanks for the valid points both ways guys. Since I want 30mm rings, I will probably go with something far more common than what I currently have or more common than something that is period correct for Sako, since 30mm rings will probably fall in the realm of unobtainium for either of those options. I like the idea of a quick detachable scope, but realistically how often am I going to remove the scope to use the irons...probably never at my age. The scopes low end power is 1.5 so basically the same as irons but better.

So that being said, what is the objection to modern Opti-Locks?
 
Thanks for the valid points both ways guys. Since I want 30mm rings, I will probably go with something far more common than what I currently have or more common than something that is period correct for Sako, since 30mm rings will probably fall in the realm of unobtainium for either of those options. I like the idea of a quick detachable scope, but realistically how often am I going to remove the scope to use the irons...probably never at my age. The scopes low end power is 1.5 so basically the same as irons but better.

So that being said, what is the objection to modern Opti-Locks?
So here is my experience regarding Optilock ring and base systems. I have them on three rifles and they work as well as anything available. All three rifles were purchased this way.

The bases clamp very positively to the dovetails. The rings are very solid and include poly inserts. There’re simple to put together and install, at least in my opinion.

As an experiment while at the range, I’ve removed the scope system, shot through irons, then remounted the system and almost returned to zero, without touching a thing. After a tiny fine tune I was back to exact zero.

Hunting wise I could have killed anything after remounting within reason. The down side is I had to use the tool to accomplish this task. Now the tool is in my day pack.

I do prefer the ringmounts as I like to keep it simple. Just my preference. The other minor downside is the weight. As they are over engineered-they always feel heavy. But again, probably not an issue but weight saving is very important to me, even the slightest amount.

If I were in your situation I would not hesitate at all to use the Sako Optilock ring and base system.

Hope this helps.
 
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So here is my experience regarding Optilock ring and base systems. I have them on three rifles and they work as well as anything available. All three rifles were purchased this way.

The bases clamp very positively to the dovetails. The rings are very solid and include poly inserts. There’re simple to put together and install, at least in my opinion.

As an experiment while at the range, I’ve removed the scope system, shot through irons, then remounted the system and almost returned to zero, without touching a thing. After a tiny fine tune I was back to exact zero.

Hunting wise I could have killed anything after remounting within reason. The down side is I had to use the tool to accomplish this task. Now the tool is in my day pack.

I do prefer the ringmounts as I like to keep it simple. Just my preference. The other minor downside is the weight. As they are over engineered-they always feel heavy. But again, probably not an issue but weight saving is very important to me, even the slightest amount.

If I were in your situation I would not hesitate at all to use the Sako Optilock ring and base system.

Hope this helps.

Thank you Sean
 
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