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Laser Rangfinder recomendations

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

Chris Anderson

Well-Known Member
Fellow forum members,

Shooting season is just around the corner where I live so I'm working to gather up all the equipment I need to terrify those rock chucks.

I've been shooting for many years but never owned a rangefinder so I thought I'd get your thoughts before plunking down my hard earned cash.

I've been researching the different manufactures/models (there are a bunch) and I think I'm kind of partial to Vortex. From the reviews I've read the Vortex owners mostly like their rangefinders but the feature that really caught my eye was the life time warranty. Anyone have one of these units (or know someone that does) and would like to share your observation/opinion?

I'm thinking that a 1000 yard rangefinder would be plenty for me but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance.
ChrisA
 
Fellow forum members,

Shooting season is just around the corner where I live so I'm working to gather up all the equipment I need to terrify those rock chucks.

I've been shooting for many years but never owned a rangefinder so I thought I'd get your thoughts before plunking down my hard earned cash.

I've been researching the different manufactures/models (there are a bunch) and I think I'm kind of partial to Vortex. From the reviews I've read the Vortex owners mostly like their rangefinders but the feature that really caught my eye was the life time warranty. Anyone have one of these units (or know someone that does) and would like to share your observation/opinion?

I'm thinking that a 1000 yard rangefinder would be plenty for me but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance.
ChrisA
Chris,

I personally use a Leupold RX-1600. It’s very fast. It’s not too complex. Some rangefinders have too much going on while viewing. Most often I just want a good number, that’s it. It has more features than I really need but it has several which I do use. I like the TBR feature. Leupold is close to home, and support is generally good. I previously had the RX-1000. I used it for a long time and gave it to my son who is still using it today.

We remove the batteries always when done and we do the same with Rhinos, and other battery operated devices. Rotten batteries are the biggest reason these devices fail.

We hunt big country, so a good range finder is an essential tool. Although, I rarely range game. Most of my ranging is to points to which game may end up, like saddles, draws etc. Sometimes I might have a dozen different reference points. I will range game for others as a spotter would do in the military if that type of scenario presents itself.

Having said all that, my recommendation is to attempt to hold and try several brands. Vortex is supposed to be solid and you can’t beat the warranty. Sig Sauer is supposed to be building some of the best for the money. Leica is supposed to be top notch, as is Zeiss Victory. Almost all of the major brands offer some positive features. I have a Cabela’s five minutes away, so I looked at all of them.

Obviously the following should be considered, budget, desired features, durability, warranty, optical clarity, weight, overall size, ease of maintenance, waterproof/water resistant, battery type, neoprene case, lanyard etc.

Good luck, finding new gear is always fun.
 
Chris,

For small targets, at long range, a small beam divergence is needed.......especially across relatively flat terrain.

A few years ago I upgraded from a 7X42 Geovid, to a Leica Vector.

Pricey.....yes. But used for almost every shot.....in the PD fields.

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The Sig gets lots of accalades and has a decent reputation, but I can’t take the lack of optical quality. I have a Leica CRF 1200 that works great and has superior optics to most of the other price point RFs that are made by all the other brands.

The CRF and a set of Swarovski EL 8X32 binoculars are what I use for archery hunting and many other applications where the ranging target is big enough to reflect the beam of the CRF.

For prairie dogs and gophers in a flat field you will need a better RF that has a narrower beam to get measurements off of a mound. I have used the Leica HD-B and they worked well for that, but I now use the Swarovski EL rangefinding binoculars for the varmints due to a personal preference for the optical quality of the Swarovski.

Your size of reflective target will determine the quality of your rangefinder and you won’t be able to get accurate readings with the smaller rangefinders that you will with the Leica Geovid or Swarovski EL...
 
If you plan to range small targets over open flat terrain, get one with the smallest beam widths you can find. With most of the rangefinders I've been around, in a PD town it's almost impossible to range an individual PD at distances past 300 yards, so you have to range off a mound or nearby object. The reflectivity is usually poor in these circumstances. Having a narrow beam helps. A one milliradian beam will measure one meter wide @ 1000 meters, which allows for ranging large objects only at that distance, like a truck. With a one milliradian beam width, at 1600 yards you may be able to range a house, but not anything much smaller. It's been years since I've looked at the specs on them, but Leica used to have the narrowest beam by far compared to the cheaper ones. I'd focus my search around beam width. I can't imagine any practical use for one past 1000 yards. 600 yards is probably all one really needs for general hunting, but I think the beam width is narrower on the longer range units. Good luck!!
 
Absolutely great points from above, since we don’t have dog towns in Oregon my info is mostly related to big game, however, we do have sage rats, and as paulson, Kirk and Kevinig point out my rangefinder is not suited for smaller targets on flat ground at ranges beyond 300 or so yards. I’ve ranged rock chucks farther but they highlight themselves often, and they dwell in elevated outcroppings

Realistically my rangefinder is good on mule deer to 1000 yds. I ranged a bedded monster bull at 1250 yds this last hunting season. My stepson closed to 565 yds prior to thumping him.

Kirk, I also use EL’s as my binocular of choice. I’m on these from dawn till dusk. I’ve owned several brands over the years, once I bought these I sold or gave away the rest. These are the best I’ve ever owned by far.
 
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I have a bunch of this stuff and it all works, you just need to know what those limits are and get something that works within those limits. I would simply recommend the Leica LRF for most close stuff under 300 yards and Swarovski EL range or Leica HD-B Or HD-RY for the longer stuff...

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A bit of info may help.

My original 7x42 Geovid's have a beam divergence of 0.3 x 1.5 milliradians(note that the 0.3 is the beam's vertical component.......very good....less "ground wiping"). Under good conditions, I've ranged an individual PD(only the PD) at 631 yards. Ranging technique counts.......in that I usually place the bottom of the ranging "box" midway up, on the pd's body.

The next model Leica's....the 10x42 Geovid had a beam divergence of 0.5 x 2.5 milliradians. That's a 67% increase in the beam's vertical component.

Other less costly rangefinders usually had a divergence of about 4.0 x 3.0 milliradians. Note that the largest component is the vertical, i.e. greater ground wiping.

Lastly, my Leica Vector 21 rangefinders have a divergence of 0.4 x 0.7 milliradians.............and "go" a looooooooooooong ways. :)

A pic of my old PD set-up.......with a custom 17-222.....Sako of course!!
24b7sep.jpg
 
A bit of info may help.

My original 7x42 Geovid's have a beam divergence of 0.3 x 1.5 milliradians(note that the 0.3 is the beam's vertical component.......very good....less "ground wiping"). Under good conditions, I've ranged an individual PD(only the PD) at 631 yards. Ranging technique counts.......in that I usually place the bottom of the ranging "box" midway up, on the pd's body.

The next model Leica's....the 10x42 Geovid had a beam divergence of 0.5 x 2.5 milliradians. That's a 67% increase in the beam's vertical component.

Other less costly rangefinders usually had a divergence of about 4.0 x 3.0 milliradians. Note that the largest component is the vertical, i.e. greater ground wiping.

Lastly, my Leica Vector 21 rangefinders have a divergence of 0.4 x 0.7 milliradians.............and "go" a looooooooooooong ways. :)

A pic of my old PD set-up.......with a custom 17-222.....Sako of course!!
24b7sep.jpg
I think an upgrade is in my future. Thanks
 
The technical application of MRAD and how it applies to a consumer is quite simple, but easily misunderstood. Basically it works like a flashlight in the dark, the farther out you get, the larger the beam. Obviously the smaller the beam as it leaves the device, the more accurate it will be and better for longer distances. Power and size of the beam define this.

The beam divergence (or beam size/width) of the EL Range is a roughly rectangular shaped beam that gets increasingly larger, in a linear manner, the further away the beam gets. The size of the beam is 1.5 mrad high X 0.5 mrad wide. A MRAD is usually described as 1 yard @ 1000 yards. In simpler terms - 54 inches x 18 inches @ 1000 yards; or @ 500 yards – 27 in. x 9 in.; or @ 100 yards – 5.4 in. x 3.6 in.

How this is measured is beyond my scope of understanding, but I do know that for our prairie dog shooting the EL does what is needed, although at 500 yards, you can put more than 1 prairie dog in the ranging circle and that is at 10X. The Swarovski does produce the best MRAD rating of the top 3 binoculars, a Vector is a different thing altogether, I just don't know how you could measure half a prairie dog in the aiming box at 7X.

We don't shoot far enough to have the scopes tipped forward on our rifles, and try to keep it within 300-450 yards...

DSCN2893.jpg
 
The technical application of MRAD and how it applies to a consumer is quite simple, but easily misunderstood. Basically it works like a flashlight in the dark, the farther out you get, the larger the beam. Obviously the smaller the beam as it leaves the device, the more accurate it will be and better for longer distances. Power and size of the beam define this.

The beam divergence (or beam size/width) of the EL Range is a roughly rectangular shaped beam that gets increasingly larger, in a linear manner, the further away the beam gets. The size of the beam is 1.5 mrad high X 0.5 mrad wide. A MRAD is usually described as 1 yard @ 1000 yards. In simpler terms - 54 inches x 18 inches @ 1000 yards; or @ 500 yards – 27 in. x 9 in.; or @ 100 yards – 5.4 in. x 3.6 in.

How this is measured is beyond my scope of understanding, but I do know that for our prairie dog shooting the EL does what is needed, although at 500 yards, you can put more than 1 prairie dog in the ranging circle and that is at 10X. The Swarovski does produce the best MRAD rating of the top 3 binoculars, a Vector is a different thing altogether, I just don't know how you could measure half a prairie dog in the aiming box at 7X.

We don't shoot far enough to have the scopes tipped forward on our rifles, and try to keep it within 300-450 yards...

View attachment 16006
Great explanation Kirk,

I’m going to research my Leupold’s and see how they stack up. I suspect since they were on sale @299.00, they won’t measure up to Swarovski, or Leica. Probably not even close.

So far they’ve been acceptable for big game in the mountains, and for predators on ranch land. Again, we don’t have prairie dogs but sage rat hunting is something I’d like to do more of as it’s similar to hunting prairie dogs.

I do like good gear, so I may upgrade to compliment my EL binoculars.

Thanks much.
 
Things get a bit easier when I add the BE10xT Binocular Enhancer to the Vectors........adds 3x to the 7x. Definitely need my mono-pod table mount though.
 
Things get a bit easier when I add the BE10xT Binocular Enhancer to the Vectors........adds 3x to the 7x. Definitely need my mono-pod table mount though.
Obviously your system is in a completely different league. Honestly, I had zero familiarity with your set up. After reading about it, all I can say is, I’m very impressed. Quite an investment.
 
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Well I can see that there is a lot I don't know about rangefinders <sigh>. I also must be reading the wrong reviews because not one of them referenced beam divergence. But this discussion has cleared that up for me. Now I'll have to check that spec on any rangefinder I look at. ;)

I was thinking I was going to spend $200 - $300 - $400 and have a nice (enough for me) rangefinder to use varmint hunting.

But if even the good rangefinders have a hard time ranging ground squirrels past 350 - 400 yards that makes me wonder how effective a rangefinder would be for me for varmint shooting. If I stretched out the point blank range a little on my 22-250 that could be most of the effective small varmint range of most of the LRF's. Or am I all wet?

Thanks
ChrisA
 
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What you have to ask yourself is just how much help you really need. I shot gophers and prairie dogs for years with no assistance from LRF or other rangefinders. I was able to shoot lots of stuff without, by just doping the distance by how much short I was at a distant varmint.

Today is a different story, we would be more like assassins the way we approach our varmint shooting sessions. We use wind gauges and laser rangefinders to help make the shot more consistent. I have put stakes in the field in different places to use as reference points and also to help determine wind direction as well as speed.

We will get our benches lined up and shoot in order with each guy spotting the other's shot and that way you have a better idea of any changes you need to make at those longer ranges. Skill is still determined by the shooter, but we have tried to eliminate as many variables as possible and make it highly successful.

I will also take at least 12 rifles when I go, so you have plenty to keep shooting and a cool barrel...

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What you have to ask yourself is just how much help you really need.

Yeah, that's my dilemma. I've never used a rangefinder so I'm trying to imagine how that tool would fit into my type of varmint and deer hunting. In the past our squirrel shooting consisted of driving around on the national forest until we see several, stop and shoot 4 - 6 - 8 - 10 shots and then drive some more. We've found some places to go rockchuck hunting, when the snow melts off in the high country, so maybe a LRF would be more useful there.

Our ground squirrels are about 6" tall when they stand up. I shoot a 52gr BTHP at around 3700 fps so if I sight my 22-250 in about 1.6" high at 100 yards that gives a 246 yard zero and puts the bullet about -3" at 300 yards. So I could hold right on and hit most of them. If they looked like they were more than 250 I could hold on their head and be good out to 320 or so. Our rockchucks offer a much larger target so holding on their head would work for even longer shots. So I'm wondering if a LRF would be a advantage for the varmint hunting I do.

But then we guy nuts are certainly not adverse to buying new gear (toys). ;-)

we would be more like assassins the way we approach our varmint shooting sessions. We use wind gauges and laser rangefinders to help make the shot more consistent. I have put stakes in the field in different places to use as reference points and also to help determine wind direction as well as speed.

We will get our benches lined up and shoot in order with each guy spotting the other's shot and that way you have a better idea of any changes you need to make at those longer ranges. Skill is still determined by the shooter, but we have tried to eliminate as many variables as possible and make it highly successful.

Wow. That's some serious varmint shooting.

I will also take at least 12 rifles when I go, so you have plenty to keep shooting and a cool barrel...

Phew, you guys could fend off a small army for a week. ;) Those poor prairie dogs don't have a chance <grin>.

Thanks
ChrisA
 
So has anyone ever owned/used a set of the Leica Geovid HD-R 10x42? I've found a demo pair for what I think is an excellent price ($899) but I'm a little unclear on the difference between the HD-R and the HD-B models.

Also anyone have any experience with the Leica warranty service? I'm looking for something that I won't have to shell out a bunch more money if they break down.

Thanks In Advance
 
I have recently picked up a pair of the Geovid HD Bs. Plan to take them Tahr hunting in New Zealand in August.
From my research the only difference between the Rs and Bs is the B has 10 balistic curves that are available to be matched to your bullet, and a micro SD slot that you can load a custom curve to exactly match if that is your preference. The data is loaded from a web page calculator. I have found the ranging capability to be very good compared to the bushnell 1 mile RF the Leicas replaced.
The price you can get them for sounds like a bargain.
 
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