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New Guy needs help L61R

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

jdog

Member
Hello,

I'm new to Sako's and I'm very interested in buying a Finnbear L61R in .270 (non deluxe) I found at a local shop. It appears flawless and has the original front sight in tact. It has no import markings on the bottom of the barrel and I believe it to be pre 72' serial number 34xxx. It has the, believed to be, original scope rings that appear to have the knerled knobs for easy removal and an original removable rear sight. I think I can acquire it for 1200-1300$. Is that too much? Value estimates? Would it be a crime to hunt with it based on ruining its collectibility? Any advise on the matter would be appreciated?

Thank You!
 
Importer stamps were not required prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 which was signed into law by LBJ in Oct. of that year. So the rifle was probably made prior to 1969. With that serial number I'm guessing the barrel has the "Bofors Steel" stamping, which is also pre 1969. Value is very subjective & no one can appraise your rifle sight unseen over the internet. Sako rings usually sell for $100+ & the peep sight can bring that or more as well, if that helps. Looking at the asking & actual selling prices on the auction/sale sites will give you an idea of the price range of L61Rs. Condition, configuration, caliber, stampings, & a host of factors go in to determining the value of a particular rifle. A rifle is worth what a willing buyer & a willing seller agree to. They have no "set" price, like soap at the store. Go hunt with it, as that is what it was made for & I doubt it's value will make any difference in your retirement, whether you use it or not. Good Luck!!
 
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As Paulson say, it simply isn't possible to place a firm value on a gun from a simple description. But the price range you mention is not out of line for a flawless Sako from the 1960's with the accessories you describe.

You should rightfully expect to pay a bit more when purchasing from a retailer than off of a website auction. You can see and evaluate the actual rifle, and the retailer will usually stand behind it if something turns out to be a problem with it. By the same token, internet and auction prices have to be a bit lower since you can't examine the actual gun and such sales are typically "as is" with no recourse if there is some kind of defect in the gun. On top of that, when buying off the internet you have shipping charges along with transfer charges from your dealer, so that needs to be taken into account.

But by all means hunt with it! That's what Sakos were made for. Since it is a used gun already there won't be any depreciation caused by shooting it if you take reasonable care with it as you would with any fine firearm.
 
Hmm....I buy and sell a lot of Sako's so my opinions are mine alone. I setup and sell at the Dallas Market Hall gun shows alot and Sako's, Martini's, and pre64 Winchester 70's are what I sell primarily. To me that's too much for a std L61R in 270, like 4-500 too much. The large action rifles are the slowest moving Sako's and it's not even close compared to the L579 and L461's. I'm not sure I would give it the title of collectible so if you want one I would certainly use it. I may carry one to 3-4 shows before I lose it and next to a 30-06 the 270 is probably the most common. Generally the smaller the action and less common the cartridge chambering for the action size the more it'll bring. As for rings the only ones that sell quickly for premium price are the Highs with the Hole and the extended rings. Mediums next and lows last and even then they have to be mint to bring average prices. A set of highs I can tag with 150.00 and they'll be gone by noon, same with extended rings, I'm referring to the period correct old style rings with the knob on the side. Now, having said that, you probably won't find a better hunting rifle than a Sako and a L61R in 270 is what I use for deer hunting. It's a hammer and as stone cold reliable and consistent as anything I've ever used. You do have to also factor in your location, I'm in the Dallas Texas area and prices down here seem to be a little less and...overall I'm getting less for anything shooting related compared to what I was getting 5 years ago. Maybe in Washington no one has Sakos for sale or at least they're not common so that may be a factor in value. Taking a quick check on Gunbroker and sort Sako/rifle/used, it will support what I'm saying, forget the asking price. Look at the bids and history on what they sold for. I'm not saying someone can't hit a fat pig in the butt every now and then....you just don't want to be the pig.
 
CMJR: The demand for calibers and actions varies with locality. You are correct that Texas is definitely small caliber country. After all, the largest naturally occurring game animal we have in all but a few counties is the whitetail, and even those are mostly smaller than in more northern climes. But hunting for coyotes, bobcats, prairie dogs, and other small game is available year-round in Texas, so Bubba can use more small caliber guns than he can large caliber ones.

But if you go to the Northwest, or particularly Alaska, then the larger calibers (and long actions) tend to be more in demand.

By the same token, small calibers don't tend to bring as much in Europe as large calibers. I'm not certain why this is, but it is perhaps because there is little (compared to the U.S.) in the way of "varmint" hunting in Europe. Also, the well-heeled tend to hunt only larger game as well as travel to Africa for big game. And restrictions on the number of guns a person can own tend to limit the demand for small calibers to some extent.

Considering these factors I'll stand by my statement that, in "flawless" condition and with the extra accessories, the rifle in question might reasonably fall within the price range mentioned. This is, of course, when purchased from a reputable retailer, not off an auction site or from some unknown guy hawking guns behind a table at a gun show.
 
Well last time I checked even those in the Northwest and Alaska can buy off Gunbroker. There is a certain amount of....comfort I suppose in buying from a reputable retailer. Retailer....that means he's the guy hitting the fat pig. As for reputable that's subjective, look hard enough and you'll find opinions on both sides of any retailer.
 
By "reputable retailer" I mean one that takes a gun back and gives a full refund regardless of what it is that you don't like about it. Some internet sellers will also do this, but most sell "as is".

I mean no disrespect to the many ethical sellers at gun shows, but good luck finding the guy with the string tie and Confederate flag stuck in his hat who sold you the L46 when you find that the firing pin tip is broken off.
 
He got it for a great price, alright, but turnips are always cheaper than steak. The only similarities between the Gunbroker rifle and the one which is the subject of this thread are the caliber and the make:

1. The Gunbroker rifle is a late Garcia, not an early Bofors model.
2. The Gunbroker rifle has a heavier barrel and stock. "Clunky", some might say.
3. The Gunbroker rifle has duller bluing on the metal, and the blue on the receiver and barrel don't match.
4. The Gunbroker rifle shows significant nicks and dings on the wood (hardly "flawless").
5. The Gunbroker rifle has been drilled and tapped for the addition of an aftermarket open sight.
6. The Gunbroker rifle's front sight shows marring and is missing the hood.
7. The Gunbroker rifle doesn't come with $100 dollars worth of Sako rings.
8. The Gunbroker rifle doesn't come with a $100+ dollar peep sight.
9. The Gunbroker rifle costs $40 extra to ship, plus whatever the local FFL charges for receiving.

While the Gunbroker rifle is unquestionably far superior to a Remington or Ruger which might sell for about the same price, and is therefore an outstanding bargain, it is a fairly pedestrian example of a Sako which simply can't be compared to an early Bofors model in flawless condition, particularly not one that comes with valuable accessories and is sold by a local dealer who will stand behind it.

Because I already own a fine, pre-Garcia Bofors .270 (perennially my favorite deer rifle when I'm serious about taking a deer), I'm not in the market for a Sako .270. But if I were, I would almost certainly prefer to pay $1,200 for a flawless Bofors with rings and peep sight than pay $700 for a somewhat used Garcia with extra holes drilled in the barrel. I suspect that most Sako enthusiasts feel much the same way.
 
Hello everyone,

I really appreciate everyone's input. I've clearly gone to the right place for intel.

I purchased the rifle we've been discussing. It was too pristine to pass up. Even if I overpaid a bit, I simply wanted it.

Here is another question for you guys. I'd like to mount a 4-15x56 scope. It will not fit with the existing rings. What rings would be suggested and is it even possible to mount it without messing up eye alignment with the scope in relation to the comb? I'm afraid the scope would be too high for a proper cheek weld?

Thank you all again!

J
 
You didn't overpay, you just bought it too soon. The value may not soar, but it will go up, and a pristine old Finnbear is a wonderful thing. Enjoy!
 
I'd like to mount a 4-15x56 scope. . . . I'm afraid the scope would be too high for a proper cheek weld?

Yes, that's the problem with very large objectives, particularly with older Sakos. The older models like yours had a Monte Carlo raised comb, but it was designed to be usable with iron sights. So, the older stock combs aren't as high as some later ones, thus the scope typically needs to be as low as possible in order for your cheek (depending partly on the geometry of your personal anatomy) to be in firm contact with the stock when your eye is aligned with the scope picture. I suspect you'd find your head bobbing around in the air like one of those "Bobbleheads" on a car dashboard if you mounted a scope with a 56mm diameter on your vintage Sako.

It's a hunting rifle which deserves to have a proper scope mounted on it. It doesn't deserve to be an appendage slung under a Mount Palomar-style telescope. If you'll indicate the kind of hunting and shooting you intend to do with it then experienced folks here will come up with a number of good suggestions about what kind of scope it needs.
 
I have a Mannlicher Sako L61R with about a 20 inch barrel. It has always shot
into 1 inch with 180 grain factory bullets by Federal and Winchester. It loves the low cost Federal blue box 180 grain bullets, shooting them from 1/2 to 1 moa regularly. It has also been recently epoxy bedded, crown turned and action as well as barrel have been ceracoted and stock refinshed after leading a used, but not abused life.

The interesting part of this is that i have tried a lot of different handloads for
it (30/06) and have always ended up with using the factory loads that it prefers, since the accuracy failed to impress with the handloads. I normally would start handload workups with a good powder starting 10 thou off the lands and work out to longer lengths but never did try this with this rifle. We did try loads from light to hot which did not go well either.

Have others noticed this in their Sako rifles, and if so, what worked for you?
 
Every rifle is unique as to what loads it likes regardless of brand. I'm working on loads for a 6.5 Grendel custom bolt gun & after 3 powders & 3 bullets in more combinations than I can count, have yet to produce a load better than the first group I shot with factory Hornady ammo that I bought for a few cents over a dollar/round. Go figure. Could have bought 500 rounds of the stuff for what it cost for dies & components, not to mention the time loading & testing. You never know what is going to work until you shoot it.
 
Thanks for the comment. I think we will go ahead and try load workups using several powders but start with the 165 grain Speer BTSP. If we can find a node where accuracy improves then we will adjust seating depths starting from 10 thou off the lands and work down to the base to ogive measurement shown by the 180 grain Federal blue box ammo and see where that takes us. I also noted all the ammo it liked used a light crimp, and I may try doing something wih that using a Lee crimp die.
 
No two rifles are the same, I know, jdog. But it might help you to learn almost two years ago I bought an L61R in .270 Winchester from the only owner. It was well used but probably had fired less than 300 shots, as the man had always made it a point about one-shot, humane kills. Had it for 500 € plus another 100 € for the old Optilock rings and a never used Sako peep sight.

It's a shooter.

JW.
 
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