Australian Gun Regulations?

[stonecreek]

The New York Times ran an article this morning comparing "gun" regulations in various countries. It appears that the article failed to differentiate between various types of guns and also may or may not be totally accurate in its description of the gun regulations in various countries.

Reproduced below is the NY Times description of the Australian procedures for purchasing a "gun". I'd invite our Aussie members to comment on how accurate this description may be.

Australia

1Join and regularly attend a hunting or shooting club, or document that you’re a collector.

2Complete a course on firearm safety and operation, and pass a written test and practical assessment.

3Arrange firearm storage that meets safety regulations.

4Pass a review that considers criminal history, domestic violence, restraining orders and arrest history. Authorities may also interview your family and community members.

5Apply for a permit to acquire a specific type of weapon.

6Wait at least 28 days.

7Buy the specific type of gun you received a permit for

 

[sraaw]

Stone, That reasonably describes the the process and requirements in the state of Queensland where I live, with a couple of variances as follows.
1. You don't have to join a club etc. if you own a farm or get a landowner to supply a letter stating you have permission to shoot on their property. For handguns you need to belong to a club and attend regularly.
6. The 28 days wait is for your first weapon, subsequent permits, generally come through in around 1 - 2 weeks in my experience.

 

[alpine hunter]

Apart from the points that sraaw mentioned, which I agree are correct, the interviewing of family or community members is not normal.
Most licence applications go through with the standard police check. Maybe if there is some sort of doubt regarding previous history, they might investigate further.

 

[wombat]

My input... in the State of Victoria, there is a 28 day wait for the first firearm from a new Licensee, after the first firearm is registered to that person, he can apply for another permit, and from experience if it is an "A" class firearm, ie. shotgun,rim fire or air rifle an electronically applied permit, this can only be done thru an authorised gun dealer, can be approved in as short a time as 1 hour.
Unless it is submitted late afternoon, approval by the registry will not approved? Until the next working day.
Also another quirk is . From experience........is if you apply for a third firearm of the same calibre ( ie. centrefire ) you will need a valid reason, a collector license may be required, or you can claim you are after another one of the same calibre "for parts" !in writing to the Registry.... Overall, I believe, apart from all the paperwork ,electronic or paper, it does work. ........ BUT the
Nut jobs will all ways get thru the cracks, even if our "so called gun laws" are touted by Politicians,.... and we all know THEY are real problem.! And of course their side kicks the Media..
it will only take another nutter here, and they will be saying tighter gun laws are required!
Australia, in my opinion ..... is fundamentally different to the US.
In that this Country was founded with Convicts, and the People are still being treated as Convicts!
Jay

 

[stonecreek]

Thanks for the input, guys. The clarification from real people who have experienced the system helps a great deal in understanding it.

I understand that although it is often "advertised" that Australia strictly outlaws semi-autos, you can possess and use them under certain circumstances. Is this correct?

 

[sraaw]

Yes, provided you can demonstrate a need for high rate of fire. This is nornally where, as a landholder you have a ferral animal control requirement. For instance large mobs of pigs are comming onto crops that need to be controlled. Or you are a ferral animal control contractor that works for land owners or government.

 

[susanna]

Thanks for the input, guys. The clarification from real people who have experienced the system helps a great deal in understanding it.

I understand that although it is often "advertised" that Australia strictly outlaws semi-autos, you can possess and use them under certain circumstances. Is this correct?

stone.
not only semi auto anything in a long arm, also pump action shotguns are off limits . permits can be had by property owners who undertake feral animal control & or licenced companys that do that sort of work. maybe a 2 shot semi shotgun for clay target use if you can provide medical proof that a u/o or s/s
a problem for you. good luck with that one.
as a sporting firearm ? forget it.
cant own a pump shot gun ? can own pump centrefire rifle & rim fire 22,s !!
so called national firearm laws ? all 7 states do their own version. notable state is western aust, run by the state police dept, very poorly.
re wombats last comment.
here in new south wales, my multi rifles in say 222rem, all sako but in many shapes & sizes eg hb lb with open sights stock finishes ect.
nsw firearms registry never asks why i need another ?
susanna

 

[dhv]

Please consider the bigger picture also.

To begin with, they are not uniform across all our states. They are a set of non binding principles which the states pick and choose from, like the 28 day waiting period. Most have done away with the waiting period once you already have something in the same class. Of course, registries can take all the time they like to issue your permit.

The claims that there hasn't been a massacre in OZ since the laws came in in '96 are BS. There has been, but don't let that get in the way of a good story. Add to that plenty of other massacres with knives, vehicles, petrol, etc.

We are only talking one or two multiple fatality shootings per year (with the 90's being a statistical blip) and the trend in homicide deaths were going down before '96 anyway.

NZ has our old laws pretty much and haven't had a massacre either.

There are now more shooters and firearms in Oz than in '96 yet gun crime is still going down. Explain that.

What's going up is the illegal use of firearms, particularly handguns, by criminals.

Given handguns have been carefully regulated in oz since ww1, what's changed? How has registration helped?

We could go on, but if the Oz gun laws are worlds best practice, how come no one else has adopted them in the last 20 years?

Because they do nothing to deal with misuse, and only serve to dick around legitimate shooters who aren't the problem.

 

[sraaw]

susanna and dhv, I agree totally. Aust firearms laws do little to protect the public. They serve only to restrict the law abiding shooter and do nothing to stop the daily shootings in Sydney and Melbourne etc. carried out by criminals using unregistered and often illegally imported weapons.

 

[alpine hunter]

I know a bit about the extra licensing requirements as I've jumped through the hoops.
Part of the gun law regime is making people believe they can't get Cat C or D licenses but it is possible for certain people. Semi autos are restricted, not banned.
For primary producer Cat C license, it was relatively simple. I needed to provide my business number, a letter from my accountant to say I was running a primary production business and my Rates notice (land tax) with property details on it.
Once I had the license that allows me to purchase one Cat C rifle and one Cat C shotgun only (assuming I can provide a good enough reason when I submit my Permit to Aquire).
So then I had the license and the firearms but I wanted to add the professional shooting reason to the license (we can only use the firearms for the reason we provide when getting the license - I was allowed to use them on my property for pest destruction only, not for doing the same pest destruction on other properties while being paid to do so).
To get pro shooting on the license I had to provide another accountant letter, evidence of income from pro shooting, public liability insurance, risk assessment documents, standard operating procedures for storage, transport and use of firearms. This takes a lot of back and forth as there is no set list of requirements, they just keep asking for extra things until they are satisfied. It's also not written into the legislation and is up to the bureaucrats to decide what they want to make applicants provide - this can and does change based on what some internal committee decides.
I will be going through the Cat D and suppressor permit process soon which will be similar but may have more scrutiny before being successful.
Suppressor permits are state based and not recognized across state borders so involves applications in other states if I have work there. Some states will not issue suppressor permits at all. Most states recognize other state firearms licenses.

 

[Glenn Verrall]

I concur with the majority of the comments above concerning gun licensing in Australia. I live in Queensland where I have never had any trouble obtaining a Permit To Acquire to add to my safe. I am only a sporting hunter and have 7 rifles at the moment from 22 to 30-06 plus a lovely old English side by side field gun. The firearms that have effectively been banned in Australia, or very hard to obtain permits for are assault type rifles, which I see absolutely no need for regardless of the situation. Having been a Police Detective for over 30 years and faced guns at work they are Not Hunting weapons and never will be. The laws in each state are different but the basics are the same and seem to be working well for their purpose. Keeping assault rifles off the streets. My 2 c worth. Great forum.

 

[stonecreek]

Thanks for all of the illuminating comments. My purpose in asking was neither to advocate or oppose, but simply to find out how Australian gun regulations actually function, and all of the answers have been helpful to that understanding.

 

[alpine hunter]

The firearms that have effectively been banned in Australia, or very hard to obtain permits for are assault type rifles, which I see absolutely no need for regardless of the situation. Having been a Police Detective for over 30 years and faced guns at work they are Not Hunting weapons and never will be. The laws in each state are different but the basics are the same and seem to be working well for their purpose. Keeping assault rifles off the streets. My 2 c worth. Great forum.

But that's not really the full story is it?
It's also effectively banned a lot of sporting firearms that are very much not "assault rifles".
Rimfire semi auto rifles, pump action shotguns, semi auto shotguns and even semi auto centrefire rifles like the Browning BAR are most certainly hunting firearms and there would be tens of thousands of hunters who would disagree with your interpretation of what hunting firearms are or are not.
As a hunter who has used semi auto rifles for hunting overseas, I know that they absolutely are hunting firearms. I also legitimately use semi auto firearms in Australia for pest control.
Just because something can be misused, does not mean it has no legitimate use.

Remember that there are people who use the same points as you except they substitute assault rifles for the types of firearms you like to own and use. "People that are not farmers have absolutely no need for firearms regardless of the situation..." "...who really needs a 30/06 anyway. They are military sniper rifles deadly out to more than a mile...".

 

[dhv]

Exactly. It's the creeping instrumentalism of it all, and the absolute futility that shits me.

FFS they can't keep contraband out of our prisons, what hope do they have with a largely unpopulated 36,000 klm coastline?

Look at all the pics of the '96 buy back guns, 99% wooden stocks, hardly a black rifle to be seen. Rabbit guns and duck guns.

With all due respect Glenn, the fact that you called them weapons and not firearms hints at you and your ex colleagues professional bias against law abiding shooters.

 

[Glenn Verrall]

Exactly. It's the creeping instrumentalism of it all, and the absolute futility that shits me.

FFS they can't keep contraband out of our prisons, what hope do they have with a largely unpopulated 36,000 klm coastline?

Look at all the pics of the '96 buy back guns, 99% wooden stocks, hardly a black rifle to be seen. Rabbit guns and duck guns.

With all due respect Glenn, the fact that you called them weapons and not firearms hints at you and your ex colleagues professional bias against law abiding shooters.

 

[Glenn Verrall]

The beauty of forums like this is that differing views can be expressed and the merits of all arguments considered. Firearms are weapons, especially if your the one looking at the barrel end in the course of your work.
I have never liked autos of any description, I was taught to use one shot and make it count, hence my many years roo shooting out west ( outback).
I am pretty sure this thread was started as a result of the current issues in America with assault type weapons being so readily available to basically anyone. That is something I cannot accept as normal, sorry if that offends some people but when you have guns pointed at you at your work then maybe you are qualified to comment.

 

[wombat]

Mmmmm...... I was wondering when the Aussies. Would get on board on this thread!!!!
You could say I work in the industry... retail..... one thing that annoys me is when I deal with the registry here in Victoria and especially from other States how they refer to sporting
Firearms as "weapons"!!?? The buy back was the biggest con job last Century.
Convicts are easy to fool.
There are more firearms in Australia now than there would have been without a buy back!!!
Anyway we should fight for what ever "freedoms" we have today, and not lose any more ground to the Politicians and the media, the latter being the more dangerous!
Looking forward to my next day wandering the Hills with a Sako.
Jay

 

[dhv]

Hi Glenn, I fully accept where you are coming from and empathise. I've worked closely with cops, son in law and brother in law are still in the job. Respect mate.
The inability to differentiate between the illegal use of firearms by criminals as weapons (yes they can be weapons, like cricket bats and kitchen knives and house bricks) and an inanimate object under the care of sane, rational citizens is tough to do when you are personally involved. To me that's an argument to take the regulation of legally held firearms away from the cops and let them focus on the black market.
Anyway back on topic, our laws are still a basket case. eg if you have a handgun license its only so you can compete at pistol cubs, cant shoot them any where else even private property. It gets worse, to be considered a legitimate member of a pistol club you have to compete (as in record scores in an organised comp) at least 6 times per year. It gets worse, if you have a handgun license but don't currently own any handguns, you still need to compete 6 times a year. It gets worse, in some states you can't buy ammo without producing the registration papers for a firearm in that exact same calibre. That doesn't seem to stop the organised crime types from spraying houses.

 

[kj60]

as a matter of fact many Aussies are not that well educated in the English language where the word 'weapon' means

noun
1.
any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat,fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon.
2.
anything used against an opponent, adversary, or victim:

In that case a hunting rifle IS NOT a weapon, as its illegal to defend yourself against an opponent here in Oz, and the is no war taking place here either. Hunters have hunting rifles, which by definition cannot be weapons. Tho of course they can be illegally used as such, but so can a tyre wrench, a hammer, and just about anything be used as a weapon. So just to settle it as defined in the English language a hunting rifle in Australia cannot be a weapon. So there ya go - makes it easy to pick out the ignorant.

and I certainly don't see game animals as adversaries, opponents and certainly not as victims [ a victim can only be a person or creature harmed by a CRIME] and if shot legally simply cannot be a victim.

but to answer the original question - there are a lot of very ignorant persons and groups down here. Typical example the other day we had a couple visiting us, and my wife said to me Why not show Colin your new rifle.... reaction Oh my you have a rifle! Who are you going to kill.

For gods sake Aussies - get real ............

cheers

 

[wombat]

KJ60, ( is that aLandcruiser)??
Good one. You're last bit would include, Politicians, Media, Public servants, Greenies and yore average "sheep" on the street.
If Peter Lalor had lasted another few days at the Eureka Stockade, it would be a different country today!
Hope all are thinking about the coming cooler weather and getting out in the hills. Jay