Two stage triggers

[dgeesaman]

Did Sako produce any rifles with two-stage triggers?

Looking at the aftermarket, are there any two-stage options?
(I already checked and the Bix'n Andy models that fit Sako actions are all single stage)

 

[gowyo]

Yes, the externally adjustable BR triggers in the Single shot AI 22 and 6 PPC were. These BR triggers were also available in the AI and AII heavy bbl varminters. Tell tale evidence is the trigger guard w 2 holes in it to adjust appropriate screws and the long, straight (slightly curved) trigger.

 

[dgeesaman]

Yes, the externally adjustable BR triggers in the Single shot AI 22 and 6 PPC were. These BR triggers were also available in the AI and AII heavy bbl varminters. Tell tale evidence is the trigger guard w 2 holes in it to adjust appropriate screws and the long, straight (slightly curved) trigger.

Interesting. I read on here that trigger was not in fact two-stage.

David

 

[stonecreek]

No, the externally adjustable Sako trigger is single stage, just adjustable without disassembling the rifle.

I'm not sure if by "two stage" you mean a trigger like many military rifles which have a first and second "hump" and a long pull, or if you mean a set trigger on which you set the trigger (either with a second trigger lever or by pushing the single lever forward) to achieve a very light pull.

If you want a military-style two stage trigger then most any trigger for a 98 Mauser can be adapted to the Sako L- and A-series actions.

The only set trigger I know of available for Sakos was produced by Canjar, now out of business. However, I suppose it would be possible to install a double set trigger made for a Mauser on a Sako action, but it would require extensive modification or replacement of the bottom metal.

I know very little about the current production Sakos, but I understand that they are available with a single-set trigger.

 

[dgeesaman]

No, the externally adjustable Sako trigger is single stage, just adjustable without disassembling the rifle.

I'm not sure if by "two stage" you mean a trigger like many military rifles which have a first and second "hump" and a long pull, or if you mean a set trigger on which you set the trigger (either with a second trigger lever or by pushing the single lever forward) to achieve a very light pull.

If you want a military-style two stage trigger then most any trigger for a 98 Mauser can be adapted to the Sako L- and A-series actions.

Two stage in the classic sense- a long first stage where you can feel the tension of the trigger and it gets to a point where you feel additional tension. The trigger breaks cleanly into the second stage of tension. They are nice in that you can put your trigger finger right at the moment of trigger break and know the release point. (In contrast to single stage, where the shooter is often advised to be surprised by the shot). My spoiling began with Anschutz two stage triggers.

I have not tried a set trigger before. My understanding is that it has effectively a single stage with two tension settings, the optional one being a "hair trigger". I see these are available on the 85s.

David

 

[gowyo]

Hmm, odd. That is precisely how my br trigger is set and feels. Long, smooth takeup, pressure stop and crisp 1#-ish break. Granted it's not a military to stage but it sure feels like a two-stage and IIRC instructions describe on being able to set both pressures..I'm on a mission.

 

[stonecreek]

Two stage in the classic sense- a long first stage where you can feel the tension of the trigger and it gets to a point where you feel additional tension.

In that case, if for an L- or A-series Sako, then try something made for the 98 Mauser.

 

[South Pender]

I have the single-shot HB Sako A1 in 6 PPC with what they term a target trigger, and it is definitely not a two-stage trigger. It is a single-stage trigger that can be adjusted down to a light pull (I have mine at about 8 - 10oz.) and, as has been noted, is adjustable with the action in the stock through two holes in the trigger guard.

A true two-stage trigger has separate sears for each stage. The so-called "two-stage" triggers in the Anschutz rifles (like the 5109, 5018, and 5020 triggers) are not true two-stage triggers, just single-stage triggers with a first take-up before hitting a "wall" prior to release.

And a two-stage trigger is different from a set trigger. I haven't tried the newer Sako set trigger (available in some M85s), but I have a Canjar single-set trigger in one of my Sako 6 PPCs. The term "single-set" describes it (and other set triggers) well. It is a single-stage trigger that can be employed in unset mode, where it functions like any single-stage trigger and is adjustable to not less than about 2.5 lbs. However, in set mode, it releases at about 2 oz. Set triggers can be set by different means. With the Canjar, you push the trigger shoe ahead a little, exposing a thin blade in the middle of the trigger shoe. It is that blade that releases at the set weight. With a number of European rifles, like those from Anschutz and Walther, we have what are termed "double set triggers", but these are not two-stage triggers. They consist of two separate triggers where one (usually the front one) can be employed in standard single-stage mode, with a typical pull weight of 2-3 lbs. and a second (usually rear) trigger that can be pulled to "set" the front trigger. When set this way, the front trigger will release at a very light weight--typically 2-3 oz.

 

[gowyo]

Ok then! Good to know. I'm still seeing lots of posts out there describing it as an European 2-stage...so it's not like I made it up! . Still looking for pdf of instructions...

 

[dgeesaman]

In that case, if for an L- or A-series Sako, then try something made for the 98 Mauser.

Hard to ignore this possibility then..

https://bulletcentral.com/product/bixn-andy-mauser-98-precision-trigger/

Edit: oops it's still a single stage

 

[paulsonconstruction]

I think you will find that all the aftermarket triggers for the Sako or Mauser will be single stage. At least I'm not aware of any aftermarket two stage triggers for those rifles. Your best option is to find a trigger off an old military Mauser or buy an old K98 cheap & rob the trigger, then sell the rest for parts. Be aware that you will have no safety with the military Mauser trigger & will need to modify the bolt with a striker blocking type safety to maintain that feature. Good Luck

 

[South Pender]

Hard to ignore this possibility then..

https://bulletcentral.com/product/bixn-andy-mauser-98-precision-trigger/

Edit: oops it's still a single stage

I've wondered about a B&A for an L- or A-series Sako, and have corresponded with B&A about this. Although they make a trigger that will work on a Quad or Finnfire II (and with a little fiddling on a P94S), they don't currently make one for the CF Sakos. My guess is that the Mauser 98 trigger would require a fair bit of gunsmithing to fit and function on a Sako CF.

 

[stonecreek]

My guess is that the Mauser 98 trigger would require a fair bit of gunsmithing to fit and function on a Sako CF.

Actually, the Sako #4 trigger was designed specifically for the Model 98 FN Mauser; conversely the Sako L-series actions from the L579-on also were configured to take the same trigger as the FN Mauser. With some bottom metals there may be an issue of the finger lever being too wide for the slot or too short or long, but generally, a Mauser 98 trigger will fit the Sako L- and A-series actions.

But as Paulson points out, if the trigger is not fitted with a trigger safety then there will be no safety mechanism unless the bolt is modified to use something like the Win Model 70 bolt safety.

As far as I'm concern, though, this discussion is purely academic -- because two stage triggers give me the creeps. (Sorry, I just couldn't resist.)

 

[South Pender]

Actually, the Sako #4 trigger was designed specifically for the Model 98 FN Mauser; conversely the Sako L-series actions from the L579-on also were configured to take the same trigger as the FN Mauser. With some bottom metals there may be an issue of the finger lever being too wide for the slot or too short or long, but generally, a Mauser 98 trigger will fit the Sako L- and A-series actions.

But as Paulson points out, if the trigger is not fitted with a trigger safety then there will be no safety mechanism unless the bolt is modified to use something like the Win Model 70 bolt safety.

As far as I'm concern, though, this discussion is purely academic -- because two stage triggers give me the creeps. (Sorry, I just couldn't resist.)

That's interesting and helpful, stonecreek. I'd want to have a few careful measurements taken before ordering up a Mauser 98 trigger for an L- or A-series Sako. It sounds, from what you've said, that the sear location should be right. As for two-stage triggers, I think they have some appeal to 3P and prone target shooters (and possibly a few silhouette and BR shooters), but definitely wouldn't be my choice for a hunting rifle.

 

[redrover]

The factory Target Trigger for the Sako L461 etc series of rifles CAN be adjusted to provide the feel of a two-stage let-off, and has been designed to do just that. (I will not get into the debate here about what constitutes a ‘true’ two-stage trigger and what does not) I wouldn't exactly call it the finest two-stage trigger ever made, but it does work.

A copy of the factory instructions is appended. They take a bit of understanding - the translating from Finnish to English might not have helped.

I have also appended a two page PDF file in which I wrote more details for an acquaintance who was having problems with adjusting his trigger to his liking. I don't claim what I wrote to be the last word on the subject by any means, just what I found in setting up of the trigger on my own L461 in 6PPC.

 

[redrover]

Ooops - I appended the wrong version of the PDF file to my previous post, tried to correct, and lost it. Hopefully will get the right one this time.

 

[gowyo]

Great reply and 'translation' redrover. Thank you.

 

[South Pender]

Redrover, that is very interesting. Thanks for posting that. I got the same somewhat crude "Adjustment of Target Trigger" sheet with mine too. (Mine's an A1 single-shot HB 6 PPC.) From the schematic, it looks like a fairly run-of-the-mill three-lever trigger, not unlike the Canjar 3-lever trigger (not the single-set). The sheet suggests a minimum weight of pull of .5 kg., or approximately 17.5 oz. I've tweaked mine down to much less than that, but I haven't touched anything other than Screw C in the diagram. It's possible that further weight reduction could be achieved by backing off--very slightly--Screw B. I haven't had any desire to convert this to a faux two-stage trigger, but did read your attachment with interest.

What I don't understand from your explanation is how turning Screw B could have any effect on trigger movement. Instead, Screw B appears to be the sear engagement screw, and just the very slightest reduction in this contact could render it incapable of being picked up by the cocking piece. Screw A (which the Sako sheet links to "adjustment of sear," but would seem to have no effect whatsoever on sear engagement) would seem to be the one to have an effect on amount of trigger movement.

There appears to be something of an interplay between Screws B and C, so that no separate weight of pull can be set for each of two stages. This is like the faux "two-stage" Anschutz triggers (the 5109, 5018, and 5020). In a true two-stage trigger, a pull weight can be set for each component of the two-stage operation--this arising from separate sears for each stage.

One final word about this Sako "Target Trigger." In my opinion, it's not really a very good one! One might be able to tame it down to 8-10 oz., but that's a long way from what we'd like in a true single-stage target trigger. There I think we'd want 2-3 oz. as we had with the earlier Remington 3-lever 2-oz. model and the Kenyon, or more recently with a Jewell or Bix'n Andy.

 

[gowyo]

So there you have it David. To answer your original question, SAKO produced a crappy, euro-trash adjustable trigger that feels like a two-stage. But isn't. Really.

 

[P04R]

I would argue that the target trigger above is a two stage trigger even though it doesn't have two sets of sear surfaces. My argument is that the sear engagement starts as pretty large and the sear surface is moving closer to tripping point during the "free pull" therefore there is true first and second stage to the sear movement.

An example of what i would call fake two stage would be the old TRG trigger, where there is just a coil spring that gives you the feel of first stage and the sear does not move. Therefore the sear engagement is as little as in every other Sako single stage trigger (=not very drop safe). These days TRG comes with new style of trigger where the sear surfaces move during the first stage.

Or am I arguing semantics and wasting everyone's time here?