L461/A1 PPC Bolt Body

Discussion in 'Discussions about L42, L46, L469, L461, AI, S491 a' started by sakotex, Jun 9, 2011.

  1. sakotex

    sakotex New Member

    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Central Texas USA
    Can anyone tell what might have caused the large black ring on the bolt face shown in the picture on this GB listing. The seller says it's new and he hasn't a clue what it is. You will note that the circle is much larger than the carbon rings that are primer pocket sized. I am considering bidding on this listing so as to have a spare part on hand for my PPC.
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=233452320
     
  2. S-A

    S-A Super Moderator

    Messages:
    1,901
    Location:
    America
    Bill,
    Probably got that way during machining. I don't think it's an issue I would worry about. If it was for an L46 .222 I'd buy it.
    S-A
     
  3. sakotex

    sakotex New Member

    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Central Texas USA
    Thanks S-A, that was my best guess, but a couple of other issues still bother me. The bolt knob has a checkered ring around it. I have L461/A1 6PPC's in sporter, benchrest, and varmint configuration, and none have that feature. And there is no serial number engraved on the bottom of the bolt handle. I could be wrong, but I think it's possible that the bolt came off of a custom PPC where the standard L461/A1 boltface was opened up to accommodate the PPC case. Even if true, I realize all that may not amount to a hill of beans functionally. But the risk is more than I'm comfortable with since there is no inspection allowed.
     
  4. cmjr

    cmjr Member

    Messages:
    714
    Location:
    North Texas
    I would say it's a L461 222 bolt that someone has opened up to fit the PPC case rim.
     
  5. sakotex

    sakotex New Member

    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Central Texas USA
    cmjr-
    What's your take on the black ring on the bolt face?
     
  6. kevinlg

    kevinlg Member

    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    The Republic Of Texas, USA
    Bill,

    Like Chuck said.......223 boltface opened to PPC.

    Wasn't a similar bolt on this site a while back??

    My concern is if the extractor cut(for a factory 223 casehead) would be too deep for a PPC casehead........i.e. would put undue side pressure on the PPC case rim.

    Also note that there's no guide rod/C-ring.

    Hope this helps.

    Kevin
     
  7. sakotex

    sakotex New Member

    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Central Texas USA
    Thanks for the input Kevin. I hadn't thought of the extractor issue. And I'm sure trying to find all the missing parts would be problematic if the parts weren't available from one of my bolts.
     
  8. cmjr

    cmjr Member

    Messages:
    714
    Location:
    North Texas
    Bill, I'm thinking that's it's a scuff from a cutting tool head. As you mentioned it's not from a primer and it looks to be approx where the face would have to be milled out. I think that it only looks black because of the lighting and camera pic. Just a WAG.
     
  9. sakotex

    sakotex New Member

    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Central Texas USA
    Thanks cmjr-
    Not being a machinist, I wasn't sure what would cause such a ring on the bolt face. My EWAG was it might be from insufficient lubrication during milling . The seller did confirm that the ring is there.
     
  10. kevinlg

    kevinlg Member

    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    The Republic Of Texas, USA
    Bill,

    I'm also wondering if the machining of the extractor cut is "factory" or not. A picture of the side of the bolt, at the extractor cut, would be very helpful.....no......necessary.

    The bolt could be old enough to have originally used the long/thin extractor.......I'm just sayin'.......

    Looks like I might take a look at a few bolts, over the weekend.........and a few magazine boxes, concerning Stone's investigation.

    Kevin
     
  11. sakotex

    sakotex New Member

    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Central Texas USA
    Kevin-
    Does the long/thin extractor make the extractor issue go away?
     
  12. kevinlg

    kevinlg Member

    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    The Republic Of Texas, USA
    Bill,

    No.....I don't think so.

    My main concern is the radial depth, into the bolt body, that the machining for the extractor is cut.

    Does that make any sense??

    Kevin
     
  13. sakotex

    sakotex New Member

    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Central Texas USA
    Kevin, I understand, but what would you be looking for in examining the cut?
     
  14. kevinlg

    kevinlg Member

    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    The Republic Of Texas, USA
    Bill,

    I've taken a couple of pics of two factory AI bolts. One is a 17 Rem. and the other is a 17PPC(originally a 6PPC). No bolt alterations have been made.

    It appears that, among factory bolts, there are NO differences in the machined cuts for the extractor or the ejector.

    BUT...........the extractor for the PPC bolt is longer, and the extractor "hook" is further from the boltface, due to the thicker PPC rim. Also, the PPC extractor tip is radially thinner.

    All of this causes me to wonder why the for sale bolt has no extractor.

    Note: "click" on pics to enlarge.

    Kevin
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. sakotex

    sakotex New Member

    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Central Texas USA
    Kevin-
    That's really helpful. I think you are right, the whole deal seems very suspicious. Do you think a competent gunsmith could alter a standard L461/A1 bolt face for PPC, if he has a factory PPC bolt to guide him?
     
  16. kevinlg

    kevinlg Member

    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    The Republic Of Texas, USA
    Bill,

    If one starts with an L461/AI bolt that already has the short extractor.....all that is needed, is to open the boltface to PPC size, WITHOUT changing that boltface depth.

    Then, all that is needed is the proper extractor.

    If you start with an L461 bolt with the long/skinny extractor.......all bets are off.

    BUT.......changing an L461/AI bolt........isn't that some sort of heresy???

    Kevin
     
  17. sakotex

    sakotex New Member

    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Central Texas USA
    Kevin: Heresy is right, unless the rifle needs a new barrel and one prefers the 6ppc to another 222 or 223. Of course one could go with a 6x47 but Stone and others have noted that the magazine box length is marginal at best. A 6x45 might work but you'd have to load it a little hotter than SAAMI specs to match the 6ppc. Another alternative for me is to just restock my A1 6ppc sporter with a late L461 stock that retains the pre-72 profile but has the correct inletting for an A1, and I just happen to have just such a stock. No clear choice...as usual, it's all about tradeoffs for hunting rifles and it seems one must choose some form of Sako heresy to get the "perfect" combination of action, stock profile, and cartridge for the rifle's intended purpose.
     

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