Finnwolf VL63 Finnwolf Feeding Issue

[Paul B.]

Hi All,

I own two Garcia-era flat-bottomed magazine Finnwolfs; one in .308 and one in .243. Unfortunately, I'm experiencing a feeding issue when using spitzer/spire tip ammunition in both rifles. For some reason, the bolt is able to move a cartridge about 35-40% out of the magazine followed by the very tip of the bullet getting caught just underneath the chamber. It's almost as if the tip of the bullet hits a flat spot instead of gliding upwards into the chamber. The oddest thing about this is that it only occurs when rounds are being fed from the right side of the 3-round staggered box magazine. I have no issues whatsoever with the one cartridge that feeds from the left side of the 3-round staggered box magazine.

Any ideas what could be happening here? I've cleaned both rifles so, I don't think anything is gunked up at all. Maybe these Finnwolfs were designed to use round nose bullets?

I appreciate any and all help/advice.

Thanks!
-Paul B.

 

[marlin92]

I have no experience with the spitzer/spire tip ammo but it is strange that both your Finnwolfs are having issues. First thing I would check is that action is seated properly in the stock and that the front and rear stock screws are tight but not over tightened. Second ensure the mag boxes are seating properly and are easy to insert and remove. Then I would take a peek at the way the follower sits in the mag boxes - if the front of it seems to sit low you could try to dissemble the mag and try to adjust the spring so it will push up more in the front of the follower after reassembly. The final thing to check or adjust might be the wings or bits of metal that curl over top of the shells to hold them in the mag - possibly adjusting the bend upward may allow the shells to rise a bit and feed properly.
But please be gentle with any adjustments made.

These are my thoughts - hopefully others will respond.
Good Luck

 

[Paul B.]

Thanks!!!

 

[piper235b]

Hi,
I'm experimenting with a large capacity magazine from another brand of rifle to fit my Finnwolf and have a similar issue. The magazine fits in OK and the LHS feeds into the chamber OK but not the RHS. Turns out that the side ribs that force the cases up and into the chamber are too far forward (but suit the donor calibre). I shall stamp in new ribs or modify the sides accordingly.

In addition to the comments above, I suggest you look carefully at the ribs to see how they force the cases up and into the chamber.

Cheers
Piper

 

[Paul B.]

Interesting, thanks @piper235b. Good luck with your project!

 

[Paul B.]

Thanks again @marlin92. You had mentioned confirming that the action screws are tight but, not too tight. Is there a particular torque spec that you'd recommend? 45 inch-lbs perhaps? Thanks.

 

[marlin92]

Paul I am not sure if there is a standard or not - I personally usually go a little lighter staying in the 25-30 inch lb range - I would say 45 may be on the upper range
Now I am talking wood stock that has not been pillar bedded.
I know guys who actually take a torque screw driver to the range with them when sighting in a new gun and they start down at 25 and work their way up trying to find what the gun likes as far as accuracy. I don't do that myself.

Maybe start down at 25 and see if it makes a difference to the feeding and work your way up.

I know the subject of torque has come up many times in forums but I don't ever remember seeing a definite recommendation.

Maybe some other members will respond with their recommendations.

Like I said this is what I do and others are sure to have different ideas on the subject.
Good Luck

 

[marlin92]

Paul - I am not sure why I didn't think of this before but in any case the torque from the factory appears to be a mere 15 inch pounds. I determined this by carefully taking a new in the box sako Finnwolf I have and then starting at 10 inch pounds using my torque screw driver to see where the screw would begin to tighten adjusting by 1 inch pound at a time - the screwdriver broke immediately up until I hit 16 inch pounds where it allowed me to slightly tighten the screw a little bit. So the factory setting on my NIB Finnwolf was 15 inch lbs. So as noted I have been over tightening the screws on my Finnwolf actions all along but tomorrow I intend to pull all of my Finnwolfs out and readjust them to the 15 inch lbs. It would be interesting if other members have NIB Vixens, L61R, etc what they would get if they attempt the same process.
I for one thank you for asking the question again as it now has answered a question I myself have had for some time. As I said I had no basis in fact for using the settings I was - it was just what I decided to use.

 

[Paul B.]

@marlin92 Wow, really?!? That is surprising as 15 inch pounds just seems low, no? I believe the factory torque specs for wooden Weatherby Mark V's (another rifle that is not pillar bedded...at least my W. German example isn't) is 35 inch pounds and as such, I was just assuming it would be relatively similar for our Finnwolfs. With that said, I followed your approach and actually noticed that the rear action screw caught and fully seated the action in place at only 10 inch pounds. As such, maybe 15 inch pounds makes sense then!

 

[marlin92]

I was shocked when I hit 16 inch pounds and the screw began to tighten prior to the screwdriver breaking because of torque - I am presuming a new in the box gun would have the proper torque the factory wanted.
By the way my torque screwdriver has an accuracy of +- 1 inch lb

 

[Paul B.]

Success! I used my Wera torque screwdriver to set the action screws to 15 inch pounds (first tightening the rear action screw to 10 inch pounds, then tightening the front action screw to 10 inch pounds, then repeating the process with the 15 inch pound setting). Next, I used some needle nose pliers to ever so gently bend the front of the curved metal flanges which hold the cartridges in the magazine. I then sanded the inside edge and top of said flanges with a fine grit sandpaper to remove some minor burrs. Lastly, I gave the magazines a thorough hoppes wipe down to ensure none of the sanding bits were left behind. I then tested each rifles with my snap caps and they both feed slicker than goose sh*t on a rainy day!

Thank you all for your help, especially @marlin92 for discovering the factory torque specs!

 

[marlin92]

Paul - here is an update - silly me I thought the front and rear screws would be torqued identically but my curiosity got the best of me and I decided to bite the bullet and open the action on the new Finnwolf to check the rear screw under the lever also. I had only checked the front screw yesterday. Glad I did as the rear screw was torqued at 30 inch lbs or double what the front action screw was torqued at. I never would have guessed that it would be different I figured I better check before making changes to my other Finnwolfs. So the front was 15 inch lbs and the rear was 30 inch lbs.

By the way I checked both my NIB SCA guns and they were both the same.

 

[Paul B.]

Thank you @marlin92!

I will loosen the front action screw to 10 inch pounds, torque down the rear action screw to 30 inch pounds, and, lastly, re-tighten the front action screw to 15 inch pounds.

Thanks again!

 

[Paul B.]

Interesting. Maybe the magazine spring doesn't have enough tension pressure to force up the last cartridge?

 

[Paul B.]

Hmmm. My only suggestion is to slightly bend up the very front end of the curved metal fins securing the cartridges. I only adjusted mine by about 5-10 degrees from the original dimensions and it feeds perfectly now.

 

[stonecreek]

I am not sure why I didn't think of this before but in any case the torque from the factory appears to be a mere 15 inch pounds. I determined this by carefully taking a new in the box sako Finnwolf I have and then starting at 10 inch pounds using my torque screw driver

The tightness of an action screw on a years-old unfired rifle is no kind of indicator of what its torque should be. Wood shrinks and swells, both with age and with variations in atmospheric humidity, so nearly every action screw you run across which hasn't been attended in the last few years will be looser than it should be. The very first item on my checklist before firing a newly acquired rifle is to check the tightness of the action screws. Where do you think so many stock splits at the tang come from?

 

[marlin92]

I hear you Stone - but with both guns having the exact same torques on both screws ( Both front ones were 15 and both rear were 30) I would think they were set at the factory. If you do not feel they are correct what is your recommendation for the torques?

 

[Paul B.]

I'd agree that it seems more than a coincidence that both guns were torqued identically... With that said, @stonecreek do you have different torque specs that you'd recommend? I wonder if anyone has a NIB set of SCA Commemorative wolves that they could test???

 

[stonecreek]

I'm told by professionals that torque wrenches are imprecise tools. An aviation mechanic explained to me that they don't use them at all and their standard for measuring the tightness of bolts is to use a caliper in order to measure the stretch of the bolt's length by a certain percentage.

That issue aside, the Finnwolf is a bit different from bolt actions but not that much. It is the front action screw which pulls the recoil lug into place and should be by far the tighter of the two. Having the rear action screw the tighter can certainly contribute to cracking the wood at the rear tang if the front screw is not tight. The rear action tang should never bear any of the recoil forces.

My practice is to tighten the front action screw as tight as practical with a good-fitting screw driver, then snug the rear screw, but not "squeaky" tight. I have no idea what this amounts to in inch-pounds of torque, but this has served me well and prevented any tang cracks.

 

[marlin92]

I wonder how many splits were the result of not having the metal ferrule in place at the rear screw, or very light torque. I myself have always used 25-30 inch lbs for the action screws, plus I also check them periodically and have also never had a stock split or chip on me. It certainly would be wonderful if someone else with a new Finnwolf or any new SAKO would try to determine what their action screw torques are. As far as inaccuracy of a torque wrench/screwdriver it is certainly more accurate than just picking up a screwdriver and turning a screw, as depending on the muscle strength of the individual and the size of the screwdriver the results will be much more inaccurate than using a tool that has been calibrated. It is all dependent on the proper specs being shared with the user of the tool.
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