461 222 rem mag

[adirondacks]

Greetings ,
I have not posted in quite a while, actually have not purchased a sako for a while. Last Saturday ended my dry spell. Found a standard grade L 461 222 rem mag. Bofors marked, 74, XXX serial. Very clean, guy said has not fired it since 1967. The ammo he gave me had 1967 on one of the boxes.
Anyway my question is, some people think 222 rem mag is a dog caliber and no one wants them. I missed out on a mag deluxe because I hesitated due to a friend telling me they are no good etc . I still kick my self over that one. The new owner of that gun just advertised it @ 3,000.00. The asking price 3 years ago at the gun shop was $1275.00
What is the real deal on 222 rem mag, are they not desirable and collectable. I think they are cool, not the everyday guys caliber, but a good performer. What is the rarity and timeline on 222 rem mag in a std barrel rifle. I know you will want pics, so I will work on it.
Look forward to the real Sako experts input.

Adirondacks

 

[deergoose]

I buy every clean one that I can find. Fantastic caliber, just has lost favor many years ago to those calibers that are more commonly found, like the .223 and .22-250. The Magnum gives up nothing to the .223. Some of the most accurate Sakos that I own is in .222Mag. I just bought close to 40 rounds of Remington factory ammo for $30, but most of the time you'll pay two or three time that. I've got lots of brass and ammo, but no dies as I'm not a reloader. That's what my buddies are for, but I'm not a big shooter, especially this year due to work and personal factors out of my control.

Maybe later this Fall, I'll get some shots on critters with the Mag.

good luck,
DeerGoose

 

[deergoose]

One more thing......see what you'll pay for an L46 .222Mag in Deluxe or Full Stock....if you can find one.

Collectable? hell yes.

DeerGoose

 

[stonecreek]

The .222 Magnum was actually pretty popular until the .223 was introduced. Sako turned out quite a few of them, so they are not rare but are somewhat scarcer than the regular .222 or the .223. The .222 Magnum, with a bit more case capacity, will actually drive the same bullet a tad faster when loaded to the same pressure as the .223. But (without going into the details of why) the .223 is factory loaded to higher pressures in order to equal the .222 Magnum's velocities. The .222 Magnum was also one of the earliest "boutique" cartridges favored by benchresters in the 50's and 60's; they seemed to like its longer neck.

In my experience a Sako .222 Magnum will bring a bit of a premium over a .222 of equal vintage. I think of Sakos chambered for the round as highly desirable and own three -- two L461's and an L46 (often stamped "L469"). Rifles chambered for it may not be a favorite of Joe Sixpack since ammunition is somewhat scarce and tends to be expensive.

But empty brass is (or was before the component shortage) readily available (or can be reverse-formed from its lineal descendant, the .204 Ruger). Loading for the round is straight forward and it uses the same powders, primers, and bullets as its smaller cousins. The only drawback is that the Sako magazine is tight for it and long bullets, like some of the plastic tipped spitzers, sometimes have to be seated deep enough that part of their ogives are below the mouth of the case. However, the conventional spitzer bullets up to 60 grains work just fine, and a Ballistic Tip of 50 grains or less will fit.

 

[16b410]

Generally speaking, those who hand-load like them just fine, and those who buy factory ammo not so much. I've had both, and always liked the .222 more than the .222 Mag, but the cartridge is certainly not a 'dog'. If the value of the magnum is considerably higher, then that is news to me. I see them sell for a small to midlin premium, regardless of high they are listed.

 

[L-46]

Very nice,
should be a great rifle!

 

[blackjack]

Hello Sako Lovers,

Can any one tell me if Remington continue to produce the .222 Rem. Magnum cartridges? If not when did Remington stop producing this out-standing cartridge? Also do other cartridge makers produce the .222 Rem. Magnum? If so who are they?

Thanks. Blackjack

 

[stonecreek]

I last I knew the .222 Magnum (both brass and ammunition) was still listed as a current production item by Remington, but that doesn't mean that it is currently being produced. Less popular calibers are often listed as "seasonal" production items. Although "seasonal" sounds like once per year, it is actually once every few years, or whenever the factory gets around to it, considering stock in the pipeline, demand, and availability of production machinery. Ammunition manufacturers are still catching up after the buying frenzy caused by news events, and as a result they have been concentrating on the most popular calibers. So, Remington may or may not produce additional .222 Magnum ammunition sometime in the foreseeable future.

I believe that Nosler had a run of it and may still offer it currently.

 

[blackjack]

Thanks Steve,

Yes Nosler are still making .222 Rem. Magnum Ammunition. I will have to make a few phone calls and find out who is or can import Nosler ammunition into the UK!

Blackjack

 

[L-46]

Black jack,
Have you laid eyes on your little L46 yet?

 

[pk1]

Several years ago I purchased a used L461 in 222 Mag and took it coyote hunting. Using a Sierra 50 grain Spitzer Blitz bullet I killed 11 coyotes and a gray fox with it in 2 days of calling. Exit wound about the size of a golf ball and instant kills.

The only problem with the L461, at least mine, as already stated here is that the magazine limits the length of the loaded cartridge and in my rifle the freebore is too long for my liking. The rifle performs well for hunting but I never got the kinds of groups I got with my 222.

P.O. Ackley said that the 222 Mag cartridge is a superior design to the 223. The 222 Mag was developed for the military but was rejected even though it met their original standards. Remington went back to the drawing board and designed the 223 which was accepted effectively killing the 222 Mag.

Since I wanted the rifle for hunting I decided to change out the barrel and chamber it for the 223 Ackley Improved because I thought that I'd have a shorter cartridge that would better fit the rifle. I was surprised to find that the 223 AI out performs the 222 Mag and is superbly accurate on the L461.

All this said, if I could find an L461 Deluxe from the 60's in good shape at a reasonable price I would have it in my safe. The 222 Mag is a fine cartridge.

Cabelas used to turn out ammo for obsolete cartridges and they did have 222 Mag ammo for a while. I looked for a while but I reload and found that brass is available and probably will be for a time to come since there are still plenty of rifles around that use this cartridge. Also, there are several wildcat cartridges built on the 222 Mag including the 6X47.

 

[stonecreek]

P.O. Ackley said that the 222 Mag cartridge is a superior design to the 223. The 222 Mag was developed for the military but was rejected even though it met their original standards. Remington went back to the drawing board and designed the 223 which was accepted effectively killing the 222 Mag.

The problem was that the experimental military cartridge, later named the .222 Magnum, was just a tad long for the design of Stoner's AR-15. In order both fit in the action and still meet the military spec of penetrating a standard helmet at, I think, 600 yards, the neck of the .222 Magnum was shortened, the shoulder moved back just a bit, and the standard pressure increased a bit to achieve the necessary velocity. Thus the 5.56/.223 was born and the .222 Magnum, which Remington went ahead and introduced as a commercial round several years before the adoption of the .223, was doomed to the cobweb-lined closets of rifle nuts like those of us on this board.

 

[blackjack]

Hello L46,

I received my FAC variation for the 6,3 X 33 R / .25-20 WCF on Saturday 15th August - Yippee! I now have to plan my journey to Buckinghamshire to collect. Could be end of August joggling work & holidays.

Blackjack

 

[L-46]

Black jack,
Good to hear you are getting closer, i am sharing your excitement!
Be sure to let us know when you bring her home!

I really like the 222Mag, even though i never shoot it nowadays.
I used to maybe 20 years back, but we never had any decent barrels out here. I have bought and sold many over the years and never found one with a nice clean bore.
All the 222mag's you bought here had rust in the bore from sitting around.
I ended up pulling both 222mag barrels i had on the L461's and rebarreling into 223AI. I must say i have never looked back, but then i have never compared the two either.

L-46

 

[blackjack]

Good Afternoon Sako Lovers,

Does anyone know " how many years " the L469's were produced, and aprox how many were made? I would think that the first year of production would of been 1969. I also know that the L469's were made in 4 models. Was the only calibre for this model .222 Rem. Magnum? Thanks.

Blackjack

 

[paulsonconstruction]

The L469 was introduced in 1959 & was made along side the L46 until both models were replaced by the L461 which, according to Sako records, was Sept. 26, 1962. There was also a short run of L46's (and possibly L469's ??) from the remaining L46 parts around 1963/64 but I don't know if they are included in the 57,000 total serial numbers attributed to these models. I don't think we know for sure when Sako started modifying the L46 to accept the longer 222 Rem Mag & not stamping them with the "9" on the end, but general consensus is 195"9" is when they started stamping the 222 Rem Mag L46's with the L469 moniker. Same year the L57 morphed into the L57"9". The L46 design was modified to the L461 & adopted in 1961, thus the "1" was added even though rifles didn't start being shipped until 1962. That's about all I think I know. Perhaps the newly acquired factory records can shed more light.

 

[stonecreek]

Paulson has it pretty close to right as far as any of us know. There are quite a few rifles with actions stamped "L46" floating around chambered for the .222 Magnum, even though they are clearly identical to the L469. When I say "quite a few", I mean that relative to the total number of L46/L469 .222 Magnums in existence, which is not all that many.

Yes, the only caliber chambered in the L469 action was the .222 Magnum (*see correction next post). I've seen a handful of custom jobs on the L469 in 6x47 (6mm/.222 Magnum) or the .25/222M, but of course they were rebarreled rifles. If someone wanted to rebarrel to .223 or a .223 wildcat then the L469 is a better choice than the L46 due to its longer magazine. Curiously, a few .222 Magnum rifles were built using L57 actions according to the records, but I don't recall offhand seeing one. It is possible that Sako first toyed with using the L57 for the .222 Magnum, then reversed itself and adapted the L46 action using a longer magazine.

But why would Sako go to the trouble of producing the .222 Magnum, which ended up an orphaned cartridge that no one now produces? You have to remember that at the time it was the fastest factory cartridge in .22 centerfire outside of the somewhat rare and overly-large .220 Swift. It was also becoming popular with benchrest shooters, and was rumored to be the next standard U.S. military round. The fortunes of the .222 Magnum were quickly reversed when the slightly shorter .223, loaded to slightly higher pressures to match the .222 Magnum performance, was adopted by the U.S. military and introduced by Remington as a commercial cartridge.

As we know, Sako never discarded any usable parts, so L46's and L469's continued to come out of the factory for quite some time after the L461 version supposedly superseded it; this is in addition to the somewhat mysterious 1963-4 "late run" of L46's (none of which were in .222 Magnum, it appears).

 

[stonecreek]

Correction: I said that the L469 was never chambered in anything other than .222 Magnum. Actually, Sako built a few rifles for Colt, marketed as the "Coltsman Deluxe", chambered in .223. This was apparently contemporaneous with the "late run" L46's in 1964.

Incidentally, research has shown that the handful of Sako "Deluxe Special" rifles (so marked on the barrel) were apparently overruns from the Colt order. The markings on the "Deluxe Special" were modified a bit to replace Colt logos with Sako logos, but otherwise the two rifles were apparently identical and only very slightly different from the regular Sako "Deluxe".

 

[blackjack]

Hello Paul & Steve,

A wealth of information gentlemen and I thank you kindly. Have all commercial making of .222 Rem. Magnum cartridges in the USA and the EU ceased forever? If so It is a bloody disgrace and shame for this superb round!

Blackjack

 

[stonecreek]

No, Nosler is marketing ammunition for the .222 Magnum. And I believe that Sako may also, although I can't really say since Sako ammunition is only sporadically marketed in the U.S.

Remington isn't making much of anything right now except "catch up" ammunition in the most common calibers due to several years of ammunition hoarding in the U.S. However Remington continues to have .222 Magnum on their roster of brass cases for reloading, and I suspect will make another run of them whenever they get around to it. After all, the basic case is the parent of several fairly popular wildcats as well as the .204 Ruger. If push comes to shove, .222 Magnum cases can always be made from .204 Ruger.