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.264 Win Mag twist rate

Discussion in 'Sako Long/Magnum Actions' started by sraaw, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone advise what the twist rate was that Sako used for the early L61Rs in .264 WM ?
    Don't have the rifle yet so can't measure it myself.
    Cheers in advance.

     
    topgear likes this.

  2. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary SCC Board Member

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    I've always assumed that they were 1-9", or the very near metric equivalent. Never had occasion to measure the one I've owned for over 50 years or the couple of others I've owned since. They shoot everything up to a 140 Nosler Partition well (and I've never had need of a longer bullet), so I've never really had any curiosity about the twist.

    What is MUCH MORE important about a Sako .264 is the throat. They were made with SAAMI spec chambers with Winchester's illogical zero-leade throat. In other words, the riflings start right at the case mouth. Why Winchester did this remains something of a puzzle, but Winchester 140 grain ammunition used a two-diameter bullet with the section forward of the case mouth measuring bore diameter of about .256" so that it could be seated out fairly long and not stick in the lands. You'll find that if you attempt to seat most 125+ grain bullets out where they "ought" to be to take advantage of the Sako's 3.6" magazine that they will hit the lands far too quickly. So, if you're serious about making the .264 perform as it should, then you'll need to have the throat reamed so that a bullet like the 140 Nosler Partition can be seated out to around 3.45" OAL or so. Of course, extending the throat allows the use of slightly more powder and better velocities at the same or lower chamber pressure.
     
  3. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Stone,
    The ADI load manual has data based on 1:8 so 1:9 shouldn't be too far off the mark.
    I did see a post of yours where you talked about lengthening the throat of your .264 WM for the heavier bullets. This one is in the 22xxx SN range so I expect will be similar. I'll have to check it when it arrives to see how the throat restricts the Hornady 143gn ELX I am hoping to use.
    Looking forward to seeing what this Calibre can do. Should be perfect for most of the game I hunt here in Australia.
     
  4. susanna

    susanna Well-Known Member

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    sraaw.
    you get the one on usedguns.com today ?
    susanna
     
  5. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

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    Hi Susanna,
    Yes, as you will know they are seldom seen here, so was keen to pick it up. Will pair nicely with a L579 HB I recently put a 6.5 CM barrel onto for long range steel shooting.
     
  6. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

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    Hi Stone, been having a look online and the 140 partitions you mentioned get a good wrap. I'll give them a try as well.
     
  7. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary SCC Board Member

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    Many years ago I was partial to Sierras, which usually shoot well in most guns. However, they never did want to settle down in my Sako .264. Once I tried the Nosler Partitions the gun settled down very nicely, so I've stuck with them ever since.

    Every rifle tends to be a rule unto itself with no two rifles behaving exactly the same way with the same loads. I remember a test in which two new Remingtons (I think) in the same caliber with consecutive serial numbers were fired with identical loads. One was nearly 100 fps faster than the other with most loads.

    That said, I have a favorite load I originally worked up for my Sako .25-06. I've had a chance to try it in at least three other .25-06's and it turns in virtually identical velocity and accuracy from all of them. I foolishly let my original Sako .25-06 go, but almost immediately replaced it with another. Astonishingly, I found that not only did the ammunition I had made for the original rifle shoot well in the replacement rifle, even the neck-sized only reloads fit the chamber of the replacement perfectly. This is very much the exception to the rule.
     
  8. topgear

    topgear Sako-addicted

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    Well done sraaw it looked like a great rifle at a great price. You must have been onto it quick!;)
     
  9. susanna

    susanna Well-Known Member

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    sraaw.
    well done, good to see these rifles go to a good home.
    cant say have ever seen a 26"barreled sako rifle in the flesh.
    the 264wm i have is in the 504xxx range std barrel length, fitted with open sights, has a flamed walnut stock !
    susanna
     
  10. wombat

    wombat Well-Known Member

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    Hi sraaw, good pick up, I saw it did not last long.
    Jay
     
  11. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

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    Topgear & Wombat, I happened to be up early on Sat morning so was lucky.
    I've only recently gotten interested in the 6.5s and with it being in virtually new condition I didnt think too long before pulling the trigger, so to speak.
    Will be interested to see if it is actually as described.

    Susanna, Thanks, not sure I've seen a flamed walnut stock before? Sounds interesting, would be good to see some pics. How does it shoot?

    The seller indicated there was a bit of an interesting back story on the rifle, along with another 5 or 6 he listed at the same time. Said they came from a collecter/ dealer that had recently lost his licence and was therefore forced to dispose a lot (hundreds) of firearms.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  12. susanna

    susanna Well-Known Member

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    scaaw.
    my 2 L61R 264wm,s 1st plain walnut stock is a rebarrelled early 3 lug rifle ser 34xxx
    2nd is a well used original rifle, ser 504xxx unusual stock , still shoots well.
     

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  13. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

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    Hi Susanna, thanks for posting pics of your two rifles. Sorry for the delay in responding, been away for the past week with work.
    The flamed walnut is completely new to me, I've only ever seen the older domestic Sakos with the flamed birch stocks. It would be interesting to hear from others here to see how many have come across Sakos with flamed walnut.
    You must have a soft spot for the 264 WM with two, what do you mainly use them for?
     
  14. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

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    All,
    While awaiting my permit from the police, I requested the factory records for my .264WM (Serial 22,8XX) which I was expecting would be dated sometime around the mid 1960's. Surprise surprise! On reciept of the records this morning, the rifle born date was shown to be in late '73, with shipping early '74. The records confirmed the rifle was shipped to D.W. Custer (the Australian importer of the day) as a Standard Sporter in .264WM.
    Again this confirms what we all know - Sako serial numbers can't be relied upon as a true indication of date of manufacture. The inspection record shows one other .264 WM that was also not signed off until mid '73, with the remaining rifles all built during '65-'68.

    As an interesting note the action has the recess for the third rear lug, however, the bolt has no lug indicating it's a later bolt (with correct SN), most likely fitted just prior to inspection in '73, rather than when the receiver was made several years earlier.
     
    susanna likes this.
  15. wombat

    wombat Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sraaw, so does that make it a ,72 model? Looking 4wd to seeing some pics.
    Jay
     
  16. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

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    Hi Wombat, I hadn't thought of a Mod 72 as a possibility. Not sure if they were an Australian thing, or just US?
    Now you mention it the bolt does have the pin in the left rear of the bolt shroud, so it probably could be classed as a '72, without the pistol grip cap.

    I will post some pics when the permit comes through and I can pick it up from my local dealer.
     
  17. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary SCC Board Member

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    Sako was making and shipping the Model 72 as well as their Standard model at the same time, but there were no .264's listed as "Model 72", so I would assume that sraaw's rifle is the "standard" and not the 72.

    The fact that his receiver was not just assigned an early number but actually has the recess for the third lug indicates to me that it was made much earlier and sat at the bottom of a bin for the better part of a decade. That baffles me!

    The Model 72 showed many variations (grip caps or none, skipline or regular checkering, smooth or checkered dovetails, etc.), but the two consistent features I've seen are a rear open sight and two-point checkering pattern on the pistol grip (as opposed to the Standard which had a three-point checkering pattern.)
     
  18. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

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    Stone, this .264WM has none of the above 'model 72 features you have listed.
    The pin through the rear, and the missing third bolt lug, are clear indications the bolt is from a later era than the receiver. As you indicate it is clearly a standard sporter, but with the later style stock shape and I suspect, the heavier barrel contour consistent with the actual 73 inspection date. I will confirm properly once I can compare side by side with other L61Rs I have.

    So 10 years spent sitting in the bottom far corner of the receiver bin......must have felt like the little kid who is always picked last in the school yard when selecting sporting teams, but worse!
     
  19. susanna

    susanna Well-Known Member

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    sraaw.
    no problem. worked away for many years. know what its like.
    been no reply from other members regards to the stock on this sako.

    the 3 lug rifle was bought with a plan to rebarrel that just never happened, the douglas barrel thats fitted has bill marden of super simplex reloading equipement & gunsmithing fames name on it. bolt has no serial no etched on its underside would probably have been a new action in an old stock. bit nostalgic, have just left it as is.
    2nd rifle came via a dealer mate who traded it.
    stock is a little different thats for sure. didnt really know what to make of it at 1st.
    just like owning the odd sakos. will keep it as is.
    have shot both spareingly. have plenty of cases & dies, several boxes of sako factory cartridges. all i can say is 264wm slays pigs !!
    if your interested i have a spare rcbs 3 die set & maybe 100 new ppu cases. have had a good run with ppu brass.
    64 sakos in my safe, inc 2 x 25-20s, 2 x left wing safety rifles one in 7x33 & a 22 hornet. way to many to shoot .
    susanna
     
  20. sraaw

    sraaw Well-Known Member

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    Susanna, PM sent
     

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