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L579 22-250 Heavy. Conflicting info. Date, Value etc.

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

Rand E

Member
I purchased this gun new in late 1970 or early 1971. The serial number is 1186xx. The records that I have been able to access say that it was manufactured near the end of that L579 action numbering series maybe in 1972.
There is no doubt of when I bought it (1970-71). I did purchase it in Naples, Italy and lugged it back to the US
aboard a naval vessel. I talked to a rep from Blue Book of Guns because I could find no reference to this gun
in their data base. His answer kind of implied that it either didn't exist or I had the only one in the country.
The gun has had under a hundred rounds thru it and is about 98%. It has beautiful wood and almost immaculate metal. I am able to provide pictures etc.
What I am in search of is the regular sort of thing. History, value etc.
Thank You,
Rand E
 
Your rifle sounds like a typical Forester L579 heavy barrel in .22-250. Although Sako skipped around on its serial numbers and rifles were not numbered in chronological order, your number is in the general range that could have been manufactured in 1971.

The Fjestad Blue Book is notoriously inaccurate on Sakos, both in terms of the models they list and the values they list for them. It is not surprising that someone associated with the publication would give you a vague answer along with worthless disinformation when asked about a Sako. Post some good photos here and from its features there will be any number of forum contributors who can tell you an approximate range of manufacture dates as well as provide a range of opinions of what similar rifles bring on the current market.
 
P1010695.JPG P1010696.JPG P1010697.JPG P1010698.JPG P1010699.JPG P1010700.JPG P1010695.JPG P1010696.JPG P1010697.JPG P1010698.JPG P1010699.JPG P1010700.JPG P1010695.JPG P1010696.JPG P1010697.JPG P1010698.JPG P1010699.JPG P1010700.JPG
Your rifle sounds like a typical Forester L579 heavy barrel in .22-250. Although Sako skipped around on its serial numbers and rifles were not numbered in chronological order, your number is in the general range that could have been manufactured in 1971.

The Fjestad Blue Book is notoriously inaccurate on Sakos, both in terms of the models they list and the values they list for them. It is not surprising that someone associated with the publication would give you a vague answer along with worthless disinformation when asked about a Sako. Post some good photos here and from its features there will be any number of forum contributors who can tell you an approximate range of manufacture dates as well as provide a range of opinions of what similar rifles bring on the current market.
 
There is nothing "conflicting" about your rifles production date compared to it's purchase date. Sako did not build rifles in sequential order with the serial numbers. It is common to have serial numbers thousands apart to be made in the same year & serial numbers very close to be separated by several years. The only pic that gives any info is the one showing the receiver stampings. Pics of the top of the dovetails & barrel stampings would convey info as well. Having no grip cap may help guesstimate it's born on date also. It appears the rear dovetail has been drilled & tapped for the scope mount base, as well as the barrel. As this was not done at the factory, it detracts from it's market value. It could just be the lighting, but the action does not seem to have the high polished blue Sako was known for & if the dovetail tops are not checkered that would tell us it's a "Model 72". Value is very subjective & is based on a host of factors like originality, condition, caliber, etc., etc. I would say yours is a nice example of a Sako HB from that era that has been drilled & tapped. I'd place it's value somewhere in the middle of the price range these rifles are selling for, not the asking price, that you see on the gun sale/auction sites. When it comes to Sako, the "Blue Book" is worthless in determining value.
 
Randy
That's the nicest wood stock I've seen on a heavy barrel.
Some of the guys here under estimate the value of guns.

I did notice the button on the bolt shroud, and Sako claims to have made this change to the bolts in 1974. And they called those guns "Super 74's. " However I remember . . . I was with my brother when he purchased a Deluxe 270 in the winter 1973 new in the box, at a local gun shop, before the so called super 74's were advertised in hunting magazines, and it has the same bolt shroud with the small button.

The collecting market for " super 74's" has never been a hot as the bofors rifles.
Heavy barrel collectors are not as plentiful as standard or deluxe collectors.

So . . . as we have learned . . . manufacturing changes at the factory were on and off, according to the amount of inventory stockpiled, or the number of orders that needed to be filled.
Never . . . be in a hurry to sell this gun.
 
P1010707.JPG P1010708.JPG
Randy
That's the nicest wood stock I've seen on a heavy barrel.
Some of the guys here under estimate the value of guns.

I did notice the button on the bolt shroud, and Sako claims to have made this change to the bolts in 1974. And they called those guns "Super 74's. " However I remember . . . I was with my brother when he purchased a Deluxe 270 in the winter 1973 new in the box, at a local gun shop, before the so called super 74's were advertised in hunting magazines, and it has the same bolt shroud with the small button.

The collecting market for " super 74's" has never been a hot as the bofors rifles.
Heavy barrel collectors are not as plentiful as standard or deluxe collectors.

So . . . as we have learned . . . manufacturing changes at the factory were on and off, according to the amount of inventory stockpiled, or the number of orders that needed to be filled.
Never . . . be in a hurry to sell this gun.
P1010707.JPG P1010708.JPG
 
The top of the dovetails and the top of the back of the bolt are checkered. Action does seem to have a different blueing than the barrel (which is much darker).
The bottom of the barrel is stamped awith an "A" right next to the action.
The date when I purchased it is of no doubt. It was purchased on my last deployment on the submarine
that I was on (late 1970 - early 1971). I was transfered from it in Aug of 1971 and we had been back from the deployment for 4-5 months by that time.
 
Rand: Thanks for posting photos. That is super nice wood on your rifle. Did you buy it at a U.S. military outlet or at an Italian retail store? The photos show no sling swivel, which might be a clue to its age (pre-1972 rifles generally had fixed swivels while later ones generally had studs for detachable swivels.

I don't think that the drilling/tapping for target scope bases on a Sako Heavy Barrel necessarily hurts it much -- it might even help it if a buyer had a target scope he wanted to use on it. Heavy Barrel models aren't so much in the interest of collectors as they are that of shooters, particularly varmint shooters. A varmint shooter's main concern is how much wear on the barrel a rifle has had. Since yours presumably has very little it would be a very attractive item for a varmint shooter.
 
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Whoa! Something doesn't add up here. I just noticed that it has the two-point checkering pattern on the grip, which is usually a feature of the Model 72 Sakos. However, it doesn't necessarily exhibit any other features of that model.

Out of curiosity, I took my lunch hour to scan through the Sako shipping records and finally found it listed, as it should be, as an L579 .22-250 heavy barrel ("raskas" is the Finnish word for "heavy"). See line 42 of the scan. But it is shown as being shipped to someone I've previously not run across, "Sedgemoor Engineering" as part of a shipment of eight rifles on November 18, 1975. This is well after Sako had switched to serial numbers in the 300,000's for the L579/A-II series (although they continued to ship L579's with SN's in the 100,000's up into 1975.

Finding an L579 with an SN in the 100,000's in 1975 isn't common, but plenty of examples exist. But this certainly doesn't coincide with Rand's recollection of purchasing it in 1971. Rand: Could you be confusing it with another Sako you might have bought in Italy in 1971? Or could you have bought it later than you recalled?
 

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Whoa! Something doesn't add up here. I just noticed that it has the two-point checkering pattern on the grip, which is usually a feature of the Model 72 Sakos. However, it doesn't necessarily exhibit any other features of that model.

Out of curiosity, I took my lunch hour to scan through the Sako shipping records and finally found it listed, as it should be, as an L579 .22-250 heavy barrel ("raskas" is the Finnish word for "heavy"). See line 42 of the scan. But it is shown as being shipped to someone I've previously not run across, "Sedgemoor Engineering" as part of a shipment of eight rifles on November 18, 1975. This is well after Sako had switched to serial numbers in the 300,000's for the L579/A-II series (although they continued to ship L579's with SN's in the 100,000's up into 1975.

Finding an L579 with an SN in the 100,000's in 1975 isn't common, but plenty of examples exist. But this certainly doesn't coincide with Rand's recollection of purchasing it in 1971. Rand: Could you be confusing it with another Sako you might have bought in Italy in 1971? Or could you have bought it later than you recalled?

Nope, no mistake on my part. I bought it at the Gun Store at the Af-South NATO Base in Naples, Italy in the fall of 1970 or early 1971. This is the only Sako that I have ever owned. Yes, I reviewed the document that you posted and see the receiver number listed. Makes no sense to me. I was on shore duty at Great Lakes, IL from 1974 to 1976.
A ;curiosity question. What is the purpose of the checkering on the top of the bolt ?
 
Nope, no mistake on my part. I bought it at the Gun Store at the Af-South NATO Base in Naples, Italy in the fall of 1970 or early 1971. This is the only Sako that I have ever owned. Yes, I reviewed the document that you posted and see the receiver number listed. Makes no sense to me. I was on shore duty at Great Lakes, IL from 1974 to 1976.
A ;curiosity question. What is the purpose of the checkering on the top of the bolt ?
 
In answer to the mention of sling swivels. The rifle did come with fixed sling swivels. As I am a bench type shooter, they were in the way for that type of shooting. I removed them, and still have them.
 
Hello Steve,

Having read Rand E's posts I think that Rand E's memory of buying this rifle in 1970 - 71 is correct. Something does not add up. The shipping information of 1975 is very interesting, although 5 years out. We really need to get to the bottom of this one! My Sako L461 HB .222 Rem. Serial No. 153502. could be Rand E's .22 - 250 Rem. brother. Mine has the beautiful figured stock with the pin through the cocking piece, plus fixed sling swivels. Could my rifle be around 1975? or could it be 1970 - 1971 like Rand E's .22 - 250 Rem. HB? I think Rand E has opened up a giant can of worms! and also nobody seems to know when the pin started and finished!

Blackjack
 
BJ, there are a couple of possibilities:

First, the Sako records were hand-recorded by actual humans, so there is always the possibility of error on the part of the person who made the record.

Another possibility is that the serial number is a duplicate. We know that Sako sometimes, whether by mistake or design, produced two rifles of the same model several years apart using the same serial number. Unfortunately, since we don't have the inspection ledger for this serial number there is no easy way to know if it is a duplicate serial number. However, my search of the shipping records did not turn up a rifle with this number anytime in the 1969-71 time frame (but that's not conclusive since it is possible to overlook a single particular number among many hundreds).

I'm not sure we can ever track down where the discrepancy occurs, but we can say that no one has ever seen a bolt with the camming pin earlier than about 1974. That piece of evidence tends to indicate that the rifle was built later than Rand recalls. I'm not doubting his recollection of dates and places and he certainly has some significant life milestones to which to tie it, but I've personally been mistaken in similar instances when I thought I had a recollection tied down tightly.
 
Thanks Steve,

Years ago I sold a Webley & Scott .410 Cal. to a friend. The gun was made in about 1960. Years later my friend Tim had a visit from Mr. Plod { Police } and they asked to look at his .410 Cal. What had happened was another W & S .410 Cal. had turned up some where in Gt. Britain with the same serial number!

Can you tell me any information on my L461 .222 Rem. HB No. 153502

Blackjack
 
Years later my friend Tim had a visit from Mr. Plod { Police } and they asked to look at his .410 Cal. What had happened was another W & S .410 Cal. had turned up some where in Gt. Britain with the same serial number!
Rodger at SakoSource told me he had a call a while back from Australia from a customer there who had had a similar encounter with the police over a Sako .243 he owned. They were looking for a Sako .222 with the same serial number.

I own an L61R and an L46 with the same four-digit number and have been trying to find the L57 and VL-63 which are out there somewhere with that same identifier.

These are examples of different models and calibers, but the Sako records sometimes do show two separate guns in the same model and caliber but with different production dates under the same serial number.
 
Rodger at SakoSource told me he had a call a while back from Australia from a customer there who had had a similar encounter with the police over a Sako .243 he owned. They were looking for a Sako .222 with the same serial number.

I own an L61R and an L46 with the same four-digit number and have been trying to find the L57 and VL-63 which are out there somewhere with that same identifier.

These are examples of different models and calibers, but the Sako records sometimes do show two separate guns in the same model and caliber but with different production dates under the same serial number.
 
IRT prev fm stonecreek "The photos show no sling swivel, which might be a clue to its age (pre-1972 rifles generally had fixed swivels while later ones generally had studs for detachable swivels".
I did remove and retain the sling swivels for stated reasons. They are of the fixed varieth, not studs. Which would imply (generally) a pre 1972 rifle.
 

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